Do not alter the system at all for FO4, I do not want to be able to attempt Very Hard Locks at level 1 like you can in Skyrims master lock.

For me I want the reward of getting the big gear when I've battled my way to the required skill level, thankyou

To be honest I liked the Skyrim's approach to lock picks apart form the perks system....You should be able to attempt to pick very hard locks but the odds are you going to be breaking more lock picks then you'll find. However I would add, once you level up lock picking it should automatically make easy, hard or very hard easier when you get to the right level.

If that makes sense :teehee:

I can't stand the way it is now, but mostly because its so unrealistic... Anyone (with fingers) can pick a consumer grade lock if they have time to spend on it; The skill is really to manage it reliably and fairly fast. The idea that one cannot attempt it if they choose to annoys the hell out of me ~and that's not even considering that It is doubly annoying [to me] for being a manual task instead of simply a skill evaluation reflecting the PC's comprehension of simple locks (and or a with a bit of luck; Which rather mirrors reality :shrug:).

I do agree to some extent. If and when there is a minigame involved, I wouldn't want to be able to even try locks beyond my characters level of competency. In Skyrim I was practically a master lockpicker from the get go, the hardest locks were harder than than the easiest but still too easy and all the skill did was make it even easier, and the game even helped me by practically raining lockspicks from the skies so that there was no chance of ever running out of 'em. So yeah, if the minigame policy is held, which it will no doubt, I'd very much prefer the thresholds.

That said, I agree with Gizmo too.

The best lockpicking for me would be a harsh and simple skillcheck with no playerskill involved other than adjusting the lockpicking skill throughout the game and choosing the right (possible) tools for the task. And it won't do to have an "autoattempt" button in the minigame screen, as there is no incentive to ever use it (funnily enough, I defended the autoattempt possibility back in 2007 when there was but little info out on Fallout 3, but couldn't stand it in the game and still can't due to it contributing to selfgimping - which I hate to my guts to ever having to use - more than highlighting characterskill over playerskill ).

The problem with minigames is that they are never spot on for what they try to represent or fair to the the playerbase. There are always people finding it too easy or too hard. Pure skillchecks are fair to everyone as it's the players fault if he neglected the skill or overbuffed it, whereas it's not the players fault if he can't manage the minigames even with high skill, or if he manages it all too easily already with low skill.

Arx Fatalis did a great job IMO with lock picking; http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/Animation2.gif.

I haven't played Arx Fatalis so I wouldn't know, but I agree with Bloodlines (although I would've appreciated if it too had a skillcheck accompanied with the visual presentation and everything happening in real time with the lock difficulty increasing the time the attempt takes).

I even liked Morrowinds lockpicking.

In Arx, you acquire lock picking tools (like Bobby pins in FO3), but its a bunch rolled up in cloth or leather... You choose your lock and he gives his best (skill) attempt at it opening it. Results are success, tool damage, almost got it; and realizing that its just tough to pick just yet.

Managed to see the video before you edited it out, looks - and sounds - decent enough.

On a different note, I always found it funny how in the older games the sound of walking/running is often as if the character is wearing high heels on a dancefloor.

I hated Skryim's system.
I can get into any lock I want to without breaking a sweat and I have 0 perks in that skill tree.
It's too damn easy.
Only way I'd accept it is if a locks breaks down completely if you fail to pick it at a lower level.
So Master locks at lvl 1? Yeah, you get 1 lockpick chance, then if you reload the minigame will reset itself and the actual spot will move.
And the higher your skill becomes the more picks you can break without breaking the lock and the better the chance to find the pick spot will be.

I don't like the lockpicking system in Skyrim or the system in FO3 and NV.
I have yet to find a game that has a lockpicking system that I like, although I like Skyrim's lockpicking better than Fallout's. I hate not being able to even attempt a high level lock at lower levels, it just annoys the hell out of me. Skyrim just makes it way too easy.

Have it the way it is in Fallout, Fallout 2 and Fallout Tactics. Have it so you have a chance to pick any lock no matter what your skill is at. The lower your skill, the less of a chance you will unlock it. Also bring back lockpicking kits and devices.

I could imagine a new lockpicking mini-game....

Spring Bolt Lock (Screwdriver Required) - Your typical door lock, manovour the screwdriver so it pushes back on on the latch until the door opens, found on wardrobes and some doors

Basic Key Lock (Lockpicks and Screwdriver Required) - Standard Fallout Lockpicking mini-game, usually found on lockers, wooden doors and other small lockable objects

Advance Key Lock (Lockpicks and Screwdriver Required) - Similar to Oblivion's Lockpicking mini-game, found on more secure doors and storage devices

Tumble Lock (Stethoscope Required) - You are to turn a tumble lock back and forth until you hear clicking, found on safes and some doors

Dual Key and Tumble Lock (Lockpicks, Stethoscope and Screwdriver Required) - You need to unlock the tumble lock first then attempt to pick the basic key lock, found on more secure storage containers and doors.

Electronic Lock (Screwdriver and Pliers Required) - Unscrew the panel and rearrange the wires until the door unlocks, caution you my be electrocuted, wrecking your tools, found on more advance containers and secure doors.

anymore ideas :bonk:

More mini-games...........


I'd like if picking locks and hacking terminals would be what your character do, using his own skill (which you have put point into). So there'd be lockpicking/hacking animations, both in 1st and 3rd person view, and depending if he's hacking/picking something easy or hard, it will take different amount of time and the chance of failure (and sometimes, a critical failure) is different. Picking an Easy lock with a decent skill, say 45, then it would take too long time and the risk of failure isn't that high, but still present. The risk of a critical failure (breaking the tools or jamming the lock) is even less, but also still present. With a bad luck, that chance is a bit higher. Jumping on a Very Hard lock at the beginning of the game with a low skill, say 25, then it would take pretty long time to pick that lock (can always cancel if enemies detect you or you can't be bothered anymore, since this won't freeze time anymore) and the chance of success is rather slim. It's more likely you will fail, and critical failure is a big risk. With a high luck, the chance is better though.

Oh, and you could also tell companions to pick a lock or hack a terminal for you, if they have a greater skill. Say a scientist follower could probably hack a terminal for you, if you haven't invested any in the Science skill. Doing this on some undercover mission in some faction's HQ, you better watch out for him while doing it.

This is what I'd like to see in regards to lockpicking and hacking (both of which at present include an annoying minigame) -- from the speculation/suggestions -thread:

Lockpicking:

Success is determined by skill so that you can try to pick any lock from very easy to very hard; and NO minigame involved. It would work somewhat like repairing; lock level - skill (if the skill is under the lock level) = percentual number that is taken from the skill. If the skill surpasses lock level, the chances are purely skillbased with maximum chance of success being 95% (this, the max chance, would go for every chance based system). And the percentual chance would be presented when moving the reticle over the locked object: E) Pick lock [Very hard: 13%], for example.

Lockpicking would be animated so that you either see your characters hands doing the job (FP view) or seeing your character from behind (TP view). You would have the ability to turn your head (or the camera) some ways left and right to see if someone is coming - so the game doesn't pause during the picking. But looking away from what you're doing, would have an effect (see below).

Picking locks would take a certain amount of time depending on your skill and level of the lock (aka the chance of success). When attempting, there would be a timebar similiar to what Vampire - The Masquerade: Bloodlines had. Skill would give bonuses to the time it takes to pick a lock in such manner that you don't get bonuses to picking hard locks before your skill surpasses maximum level of normal locks. More over, the bonuses would stop stacking up after your skill surpasses the next level of difficulty (no bonuses to picking normal locks after skill level of 75, for example, depicting that there is no way to open that kind of lock any better - other than with a fluke).

Each lock would have a certain amount of tries before (if you keep failing) the lock jams for a certain amount of time (preferably at least a couple of weeks, so that your attempts at just waiting at the lock for it to unjam would be a tedious job and prevent exploitation of the system). Moreover locks would have a chance for a critical failure that would immediately jam the lock despite if it was you first attempt, and critical success, which could occur at any point during the time it takes to pick the lock -- both of these chances would be very small.

This system would also be fit for hacking.

If my character is wearing power armor, has a strength above 7, or is carrying a crowbar, I'd like for Universal Lockpicking Rules to apply to both non-metal chests and doors. Otherwise, I think the best method for lockpicking (aside from bashing it open) was handled in FO 1 & 2. Straight skill check with tools being necessary, with a bonus added in for high-quality tools. Screw the minigame.

How about we get rid of dumb minigames and make it all state based like it should be.

but I bet that will never happen.

Personally I like the mini games. I think, if anything, most skills should require some kind of player skill. You need skill to shoot the piss out of things even if you have 100 guns skills. James Mifsud came up with the best idea IMO. different tools for different locks, higher skills needed to use those tools. In fact, you could have it so that certain tools could allow you to bypass certain lock alltogether. There's this wedge press the police use to pop doors right out of their frames. Maybe at higher levels you could use that, while lower levels keep you from accessing the lock becuase you lack the tools or force you to go through the hazing ritual that is the mini games.

There could littlerally be dozens of tools, making lockpicking a little more interactive than collecting bobby pins (which seems too easy IMO) and having high enough skill to have a monotonous mini game for every skill level. Power drills, lock picks (true lock picks not bobby pins which are actually almost useless for picking locks), cutting torches, hydrolic breeching devices, and explosives could be used. It's an idea.

I won't say "no" , but I would like to know your reasons. :confused:

Consider Fallout 1 or 3, where the PC was raised in a vault ~a place almost entirely without conventional locks; (This was true of the PC's home in FO2 as well... those all people lived in tents).
Now suppose the minigame was designed as an accurate lock simulation that had to be [virtually] picked for real; And lets say you were a locksmith by trade and it was rote effort for you to do it ~why would it be rote effort for them (with their sheltered background), and why should the player's familiarity with locks affect theirs)?

Alternatively... Consider Guns as well as lock picking. A person with no fingers could play Fallout (1) with a probe, and their character (who has fingers) would not be hindered by their difficulty with a mouse or controller (because its their developed skill with the weapon that determines their success at using it).
That game worked pretty well too (IMO).

Not always so... (but they are certainly never ideal).

My reason is that minigames give you a break from the perpetual monotony of the game. Granted when you have to go through seven or eight all at once (*cough* REPCONN HQ *cough*) it is more frustrating than anything else. However that's something that's fixable. Instead of clustering several speech/lockpicking/hacking/bomb disposal challanges all together in clumps, they should be spaced out evenly throughout the game. (both in the gaming area and in timing)




Agreed. But Fallout 1 was a complete turn based RPG, basically just an excerise of intillect rather than timing. FO3 and NV are action RPGs. To make a point, a person with no fingers would be able to hack a computer and pick a lock with the same difficulty as they would with a turn based RPG.



For simple locks, that are also large enough, they can be useful, but otherwise not so much. While I think they should be included (at least in the early stages of the game) I don't think they should be as vital. Particularly not when one can last me a thousand tries if I'm careful.

That's bad!?



Simple like consumer deadbolts or do you mean interior door locks (with the pin hole)? Also... not all bobby pins a the jumbo kind. The smaller ones are small enough for almost any lock that takes a key.

I prefer how it was in Fallout 1 & 2... Actual lock picks (if you found them) and even an electronic lock pick; (They should have had a mechanical lock pick gun too IMO).

In FO1&FO2 the game was turn based, success on everything was skill based. So it only makes sense that lockpicking success be skill based. This is not a turned based RPG. Weapon skills determine damage rather then to hit, as the player determines to hit with there own personal abiliites.

Lockpicking in the earlier games was a rather pointless skill to invest much in as there was rarely a penalty for failure and you could try again and again. Investing in the skill during Oblivion or Morrowind was also some what pointless.(even ignoring the knock spells or the skeleton key). As with a security of 0 you could still open a very hard lock. The real reason to raise security was for the attribute bonuses not for locks.

Making lockpicking function like speech checks did Fallout 3 is not the answer. All it would accomplish is make people invest just enough in the skill so they don't pull their hair out when they reload.

Somewhere there may be a middle ground where having a low skill would dramatically increase the difficulty of the mini-game for harder locks. But it may be hard to actually design that mini-game.

HOW it works in skyrim however is necessary because leveling skills is how you level up. If they hadn't merged security with sneak it really be necessary to let you try and pick any lock at any skill level.

Lock picking in Fallout, Fallout 2 and Fallout Tactics isn't pointless. Sure you can try over and over again but you could be there all day and not open it. There is also the chance you would jam the lock and never be able to open it. So you need a high skill to do it right.

Doesn't matter that Fallout and Fallout 2 are turned based. The way they had lock picking could easily be carried over to a new version of Fallout.

Not bad, just different. I hoenstly miss turn based RPGs, and wouldn't mind if a modern game was made in that fasion. My point was that FO3 and NV are not turn based, they have a level of skill involved with them, so it makes sense to have skill based aspects other than just combat.



I meant simple as in the number of tumblers. This is one of the things that bugs me about the mini game. Picking a lock requires a number of picks equal to the number of tumblers. your average door lock has between eight and ten tumblers (sometimes more) and each has to be in a specific place in order for the key to turn. You wouldn't be able to fit eight or nine bobby pins into one lock, regardless of the lock's or pins' size. Of course electronic, combination, and magnetic locks would render bobby pins completely useless.

I was also thinking there could be lock picks that use advanced technology (maybe some kind of plasma lance to cut through the locks) but that's just me.

With minimal investment it take a few minutes, and you could get through the vast majority of the game without ever using the skill


It does matter. Should we miss with our guns and melee weapons because are skill is low? Even if we're aimed dead on. In the early titles everything was based off percentages. You picked a course of action and your skill level determined chance of success. That era is dead and gone forever. The game now requires a lot more input from the player. Going back to the turn based method of lockpicking from the originals makes lockpick as significant a skill to have a lot invested as speech was in Fallout 3. And at least with speech in fallout 3 if you failed and wanted to succede you had to reload. In the early fallout games you might fail a half a dozen times before anything breaks.
If they designed a new mini-game one that doesn't depend on breaking lockpicks they could bring back the lock breaking kits, electronic picks etc.

How the hell do you fly through most of the game if you are able to unlock things with a low skill? The Originals have it it based on percentage and it can work with a new version. If you have a really low skill and you are trying to open a hard lock, the percentages/chance of unlocking it would be low, something like less then 5% chance. So are you telling me you would spend hours trying to unlock it? Then throw in the chance that because of your low skill the door/lock will jam and you can never open it. With low skill you could be there trying hundreds of times to unlock even a simple lock and there is the chance to jam it.

Also have what the orginals have. Doors that can't be opened without a electronic lockpicking divice and even then still have a low chance of opening it with a low skill.

You will not be able to fly though it.

Just because weapons are different now then they were in the orginals doesn't mean lockpicking should be different. The mini games are stupid and arn't hard at all. The only pain in the ass is I have to wait till I have the skill level to open it. Anyone can unlock a lock if given enough time. Lockpicking should be based on percentage/chance like they are in the originals.

Another thing that bugs me about Fallout 3 and New Vegas is that pretty much every door can be opened with lock picking or by terminal hacking. It should be one or the other, not both :grad: