Umm, Oblivion had more dialogue than Morrowind did. Morrowind's citizens had like 13 dialogue options at 12 of them were just what every other NPC in the game had. It may not seem like there is as much dialogue in Oblivion but actually, Oblivion has more unique dialogue than Morrowind does.

Then I suppose a better topic question would be: Would you lose voice acting to get more written and developed characters?

Your username is PS3DLC too, so yes, you're right!

Agree here, overall quality of quests was far better in Oblivion than in Morrowind, as in lots of the quests in Morrowind could be randomized in get me X from Y or kill A at Z. where X was a selection of items from a list A was a list of suitable bandits, X and Z was locations, basically a more random version of the promised radiant AI quests.
However I preferred the Morrowind main quest over Oblivion as it was more in the background.

Maybe i should have put more thought into my username, although I fail to see how it makes me a casual gamer lol

It's well within your right and the OPs right to like Morrowind more than Oblivion but everything the op said was untrue drivel. Oblivion had more unique dialogue than Morrowind did. Oblivion had far more elaborate side quests, that is not an opinion, that's a quantifiable fact. Now this is an opinion but an opinion with merit....Oblivion was a much more living world with radiant AI and I could actually get into the world in Oblivion. I was loosely immersed in Morrowind. I was very put off by the terrible combat and the meh side quests. Oblivion had elements of player skills where you actually had to be able to do stuff yourself which made Oblivion have more of a challenge to letting the computer do all the work, which is what Morrowind was.

In the end, the only things I really liked about Morrowind was the added lore books since Daggerfall, the graphics at the time and the amazingly deep main quest. That's the ONLY thing that made Morrowind a bearable game imo. I enjoyed Daggerfall and Oblivion much better than Morrowind although Morrowind was still a good game. I'd really like people to stop attacking Oblivion by now because all of their attacks have no merit such as how the game was "dumbed down" when in reality Oblivion took more skill and how Oblivion is so terrible because we lost so many skills when in reality only one skill was removed from the game and that was spears because spears were broken.

As a NPC in Oblivion would say, "I can't argue with that." Although I don't think that Oblivion's mainquest is so bad as people say (I like it), for me Morrowind's main virtue is its mainquest, that had a wonderful story.

The depth compared to Oblvion is an illusion. There might be more words of dialogue in Morrowind, and some more quests etc. But the difference isn't that big, Vvardenfell is for once quite a bit smaller than Cyrodiil, comparing the sizes they had in game. The main difference is that Morrowind had that illusion and it was done wonderfully. The whole argument of which game had most depth or content is useless. What matters is how you experience it.

Nah, don't listen to him. Some people like to call you casual gamer if you don't agree with them... or if you are a console gamer. According to them, it's YOU FAULT if Bethesda doesn't include something that they would like in to be in the game. The games are dumbing-down because of you, damn console gamer. It's absurd, I know...

Oh, BTW, I'm a "computer gamer". But I have common sense...

I approve.

The biggest thing is games are becoming more simple to appeal to more people. It took me 3 tries to get into Morrowind because I could NOT FIND CIAUS COSCADES HOUSE!!! I searched all over the place in Balmora and the surrounding towns to no avail. In the end, would I have liked a compass with a pointer telling me where to go? No. The directions were to look in Balmora but I just didn't look hard enough. In Morrowind, I couldn't become a jack-of-all-trades while still being awesome. In Oblivion, I am pretty much a jack-of-all-trades and I excel at melee and magical combat, as well as sneaking to get some nice criticals.

If games challenge us too much anymore, we won't play them (by 'us' I mean people who haven't been playing games more than 5 years). This world is very impatient, and that is key. We rack up debt because we want it NOW, we plan our routes in cities to be the most efficient to give us less time 'wasted' on the road (I'm guilty of that) and we don't eat properly anymore and just eat processed foods because they are faster and more 'convenient.'

That's why I think games are becoming simplistic. To appeal to the masses you need to think like the masses, and that is an attitude of entitlement and impatience!

BTW, this is for every platform. PC games are just as guilty of this.

I think BGS sees "depth" as meaningful choices rather than just a plethora of very similar options. Morrowind was fantastic but it was not perfect.

I would love to see lycanthropy back tho.

So why don't you grab prophecy by the balls and do things your way. Tell Vivec screw you, I'm not doing it your way. Kill him and finish things yourself. Heck if you wait long enough, the wise woman will skip the quest for you.




Blatantly false. Factions were much more thought out in Morrowind.

The Cammona Tong is attempting to oust the thieves guild and is becoming buddy buddy with the Fighters guild.
If you allow this to happen, you are barred from joining the TG.
Furthermore, there's a conflict of interest within the FG itself, and you choose which side gets into power.
The three great houses don't trust you to keep allegiance if you try to join more than one.(And war with the others)
The temple will task you with eliminating false prophets(And eventually turns on you if you declare yourself Nerevarine)

Contrast to Oblivion
Why the hell are barbarians becoming the Archmage? Why can't I side with the necromancers?
Why the hell is someone who doesn't know which end of a sword to use becoming the FG master? Why can't I join the Blackwood Company?
Why was I forced to wait so long to eliminate the DB traitor WHEN I KNEW WAY BEFOREHAND THAT HE WAS THE TRAITOR?(Still they had the murder mystery quest, which was well implemented)
TG did good, you became leader by svcking up to the previous one.(And the missions were well thought out)

Well what you said I can't deny, well some of it, but we are not here to discuss if Morrowind or Oblivion is better. I love Oblivion. Well I hated Oblivion because Bethesda said it was basically Morrowind 2.0. Good thing to see they are not making the same mistake with Oblivion. I gave up on Oblivion, and a month later I came back. Eventually, I came to love Oblivion, for what it is. It is one of my top 5 games of all time. Morrowind comes ahead of it. You are correct it is all opnion. Some people love all the toppings on their hamburgers, I don't. Cheese and ketchup for me. Some people love vegi toppings on thier pizza. I hate it. Again, all personal preference.

So there is no right or wrong in if Morrowind or Oblivion is better. Either you like it or don't. This is becoming a Morrowind vs Oblivion thread again. Why? Are we not smart enough to reply to what the OP asked? Who cares if Morrowind is better than Oblivion. Who cares if Oblivion is better than Morrowind? Daggerfall is better than both of them. (Kidding there. Just making a joke.)

Thing is the person asked to bring the depth that Morrowind had. Why are people bringing up Oblivion is better? So what if Oblivion is better, the person asked for Morrowind not Oblivion. You want a vs thread make a new one that is not in a Skyrim forum. (Then again, BSF doesn't allow vs threads so why are people doing it then?)

I concur... MTV is trash and it is hurting our youth.

I do, however, indulge myself in the filth that is known as "Jersey Shore"

And yes Skyrim looks to be a step in the right directions. So we dont have spears... well look at everything else that has been included

There are two assertions by the OP: 1) That gamesas is marketing and designing TES in order to appeal towards idiotic stimulation junkies. 2) That Oblivion had no depth.

Assertion 1, in combination with 2, causes people to feel offended, because taken together the insinuation is that the OP is calling fans of oblivon-over-morrowind idiots.

Assertion 2 is false, and is being objected to.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Four_Types_of_Mushrooms http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Four_Types_of_Flowers http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Gathering_Marshmerrow http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Gathering_Muck http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Gathering_Willow_Anther http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Gathering_Scrib_Jelly http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Scrap_Metal_(quest)

The books were nice. I liked em. Some of the gameplay changes were a great step in the right direction. It just feels like they didn't create a world. It felt like they should have waited one more year to flesh out a few more things(IE the elder council, the counts/countesses, take a look over guilds again, what makes this town different from the rest?)

Oblivion was good, but it had the potential to be great.

No where did the OP is calling fans of Oblivion idiots or anything like that. If that is what you think, then people better start getting mad at Bethesda as well. They said the exact same thing.
They admitted they "streamlined" and made the game easier for the "casual gamer" so they would play Oblivion. Bethesda and the OP made no mention of anyone being an idiot. If you
people take the OP as saying that, then they may blame Bethesda as well. Shall I have to find the Bethesda quotes to prove this?

And yet, at the same time, the Archmagister of House Telvanni can happily stroll into the Mages Guild and take it over without all the fuss they show about other members of House Telvanni.
House Telvanni still respects Imperial Law despite their "might makes right" attitude and supposed disregard for Imperial Law.
Hospitality Papers in Sadrith Mora mean diddly squat.
The Thieves Guild will welcome the Knight of the Imperial Dragon with open arms without the slightest test of loyalty.



Same reason why in Morrowind you cannot join the Dark Brotherhood. Or the Sixth House.

For all the defense of Oblivion I give you credit. it did have some good merits. The greatest fault that puts it under morrowind to me is that it is an utterly generic game. There is nothing outstanding about it. Greatly lacking MW's atmoshere and "feel". Every dungeon the same, terrible characters, and yes some of the sidequests were actually fun but they were all terribly generic(except for that one DB mission in Skingrad) as well. I've got more faith in Skyrim as Bethesda seems to have learned that hand crafting the land, people, dungeons ect. goes a helluva lota farther than a copy and paste of all dungeons,loot, random crap, and enemies.

Here is a quote from Todd Howard from a preview for Oblvion.

"a fan favorite for the “Power of X” crowd, but proved to be a little intimidating to the more casual gamer. Oblivion is hoping to please both crowds by having all the depth that any role-playing nut would want, plus it will incorporate a more lenient interface and control system for Joe Gamer to enjoy."

More lenient interface and control system for Joe Gamer. If that is not insulting, then nothing what the OP has said can be conscrued as instulting either. I can look for more, if you need more proof. Thing is Bethesda has said they made it easier, and simplier for the "common gamer" to get more sales. This is nothing new. So if anyone insulted anyone, Bethesda has done it first.

Exactly why can't people tell the difference between an explanation and a statment of one's own positon? I dare say, the internet is sorely lacking in that quality. You asked why Oblivion was mentioned, well for reason 1. people are probably offended, and 2. certain aspects of the OP (Oblivion had no depth) are false. I don't know why people like you have to jump the gun when someone tries to explain people's motivations.

It does not make you "invest" in the game, it made the game feel more like work. I consider myself to be a fairly hardcoe gamer and all, but I want games to be FUN... and not feel like a pointless grind thats more work then anything. Streamlining a game is generally not a good thing... but when its to make the game more fun, and enjoyable I'm all for it.

As for the"lack of depth" in Oblivion... it was there, but you had to find it. An NPC being able to spit out a mountain of text does not make the NPC deep. To me, Oblivions NPCs had more depth because that actually felt alive as opposed to NPCs in Morrowind that were stationary and could be likened to just reading a book when you talked to them. Sure the story was better in Morrowind, but deeper? Idk about that.

Its getting kinda old hearing about how "If a game is fun, and not a terrible grind.... its dumbed down for the kids in the world". The fact is that 95% of gamers actually want the games they play to be fun and entertaining. Having to "invest" and grind your way through a game is not fun for most, and thus not a smart design philosophy for developers. The extream hardcoe gamers out there need to learn their place, which is in a very very very small minority and developers are simply going to ignore you these days. There are millions of people who will buy games that are fun, and a mere handfuls who buy games that are more like a second job.

Nothing is without a reason, especially if it happened to a lot of people.

If a lot of people were disappointed in Oblivion, it had some reason, so let not try to cover the problems that Oblivion had compared to Morrowind.

But the thread was about the OP's fear about Skyrim, and I still assure him that Skyrim will surely deliver.

And let not change this thread into another battleground between Oblivion Morrowind lovers.

All awesome replies. Thank you for your understanding. So many valid points!




If you take offence I apologise. I honestly dont care what your prefrence is and I dont care what kind of fan you are. I just know that they exist, I dont judge them or attack them I just accept that they are there.
But please dont market to them. The unthinking masses, that is.

But look, if you all feel that Oblivion was awesome, I was mistaken and Skyrim will be better than both combined, then horray!!! I HOPE I'm mistaken!.