It sure is different in the sense that in morrowind you had no idea you were the nerevarine until you actually involved yourself in the main quests... we all know we're the dovakiin in skyrim already and it let's you know that from the beginning. Knowing you're the only hope and being an anonymous figure early in the game are huge differences to me and I'm sure many other gamers.

problem is having you able to change sides would basicly means every side story, every NPC, every location, would need to be written with a evil or good character in mind, and with a limited development time that would mean quite a spread out effort, meaning instead of having one good story you have 2 bland stories where 50% is copy/paste fetch quests or some such.

As beautiful as freedom is, it like so many things there can be to much of.

ehm...source please? So far as I know it basicly is like morrowind where your character finds out a part into the game that he/she is whom they are.

o great another mw good ob bad thread can somebody make another 10000000 isnt enough we need more

Your confounding thing, you and many others that see us as Oblivion haters and in a rightfull stand we are.
I m taking a bold step here.

We do not wan t Morrowind again and again and again...this would be stupid.

We want the choices Morrowind offered to the player, We want the choices Daggerfall ofered to the player, We want the choices Arena oferred to the player.
And what i really dont want its the "let me hold hand you, because your a tard, and do the things for you" feel Oblivion gives.
Each time now, more and more released games are showing this same problems.(Other than beth, but it suits beth)

I don t wan t to be constrained to be that and not this. If i want to switch side in middle of the game i wan t to. If i want to ignore the main plot i wan t to be able to and not have specific creatures linked to the main plot attacking me remembering me that i m not doing it has it has been intended for me to do it.
If i wan t to change class in middle of char development, i want to be able to, and not have the game give me only missions that are based on my higher skills
If i want to adventure myself somewhere i wan t to deal with the risk of it and maybe have to flee for it, and when i m pumped up come back and wrack the opponent and clean the dungeon blood using his head as a mopping tool. I don t want everyopponent to be vencible just because some will cry if they die.
And i dont want my RPG become some Diablo like cause now i passed level and suddenly i acquired something that should be gradually incresing and not ho i m lvl 50 so now i have 300% of freezing ennemies with my weak snowball bolt even if i only used it once in my life on that bugger kid that kept pickpocketing me. Because Perks are only that, the magikal acquiring of a new power. Hack and slash is one beast RPG is another each on his own greatness and territory, not cow and horse crossbread please.
I concur that the new system feel more flaxible but it AIN T more flexible, if you anolise the faced we ve got so far you ll see it is more constraining than before. There are others way to do it, that would give the same amount of work and work it better.
Damn it there s so many system that can be ported from PnP, that are limitative in PnP but a computer could handle like a breeze, that the options made for Skyrim are so uncreative, so more of the same it should sadden anyone with a minimum of RPG knowledge.


I know i want a lot. But if they where able to deliver it 15 years ago why aren t they able now ? what have changed ? Is the new public dumber ? Are the young of today more [censored] than the youngs of yesterday ? I think not, so the problem ain t the public, if the problem ain the public, then who/what is the problem ?

do you have any numbers or fact to back up your claim? Because so far I see only pure, personal opinion

at least I′m humble enough to not claim my feeling that it is flexible as true fact.

I'll ask again. In terms of plot and character decisions, what choices were offered in earlier TES games? These earlier games did plenty of things better than Oblivion, but moral ambiguity was not one of them (as far as I recall)

So basically what I got from this is you don't want to play an Elder Scrolls game. Most of your examples were asking for things that have never been in the series and you just want it to be some other game instead.

Also:

Didn't realize you had played the game already! Or I didn't realize that 8 months before the game is released and with the bare minimum of information of how the game works is enough to make such judgments!

I cannot hold any validity to your opinion if that's what you think about a game that isn't even released yet that you know next-to-nothing about. You're just being a giant pessimist and you've already made up your mind that you do not like Skyrim without having even played it or seen it. You just want to have that nostalgia feeling and want to relive your past where you played other games.

I want to live in the present and actually see games for what they are.

They won't give you a solid answer. If they did they would have to look at those games objectively and realize they weren't so much better than Oblivion was in terms of choices and consequences.

Basically the substance of the quests weren't all that different. Go there, kill that, fetch this, come back here. And your choices? Yes, or no. Same as Oblivion or a thousand other RPGs.

And the Morrowhiners are complaining over another non-issue here. Sure, you didn't figure out you could become the Nevarine till part way through the MQ, but you get the idea you'll be personally tied up in the big events fairly early on in the game.

Buggerfans have even less room to complain. Your character starts off as the agent of the Emperor, so it's unavoidable that you get tied up in the large events if you decided to pursue to pursue the MQ.

In Obliovion the only thing you really have any obligation to do is deliver the Amulet. You have no need to go any further than that unless you chose to. And even if you do decide to play out the MQ, it's not about you but about Martin. You get no indication that you'll ever be anything more than yet another Adventurer till everything is said and done and you get proclaimed to be the Imperial Champion.

Its all about mission creativity and endind. Since we know that you must defeat evil, and we can assume you don thave a time constraint due to the sandbox nature of the game.
And when i asked about those possibilities on a poll mod shutted it down as quick it could....




1) Beware of hype, remember of how they showed OB radiant ai being the next gaming revolution. Actually it does nothing morrowind modder had not done, but for assinines dialogues.
2)They also stated that main characters of the MQ are unkillable.
3)They also stated that if you kill a quest giver, another NPC will give you the exact same quest.

The only thing that Morrowind excelled over Oblivion on was the Main story line. The side quests were much more deep than Morrowind's and much more unique as well. Oblivion also added tons more lore books to the game, which entails conflicing accounts of history. However, not every thing has to have political powerstruggles every time. It begins to become cliched if every game has political power struggles at their heart. There were plenty of conflicts in Oblivion, you just had to open your eyes and see it. Mages guild vs. the order of the black worm. Fighters guild vs. Blackwood company. Differing feelings towards Chancellor Ocato from some of the Counts and Countesses. There was plenty of strife in Oblivion and it didn't need some political issue, especially it would seem like a trivial thing in the face of the Oblivion Crisis. It just didn't fit in Oblivion. In Skyrim it fits because they are in the middle of a civil war.



CAN give you the quest. It's called inheritance. If you kill the shopkeeper, his sister will inherit the shop. If you kill the sister and she has no one to pass it on to, you lost your quest for good. The inheritance system makes the world feel more real but it doesn't keep you from screwing yourself over if you really want to by murdering everyone in the bloodline of that shopkeeper lol.

problem is a games development is a very limited thing, game designers don′t have a unlimited time doing things, and with that in mind I rather have them focus on making one good story, then smearing out the effort to two less impressive plots, one for each moral side.



they also stated thing like killing X NPC might make Y NPC not give you a quest, or that Killing Person X will make person Z get pissed and take the effort to say hire a few bandits to ambush you. But frankly I don′t know why I bother, like someone else have said, you have already created a unmovable opinion that Skyrim will svck, whatever more we learn in the remaining months to come.

The choices were there, and more important than the choices was the motivations and depth of the characters in the story. The tribunal as possible traitorous murderers and or the savior of their people. Azura as the goddess of prophesy and destiny, working to right wrongs. Or she could be just a bitter goddess, angry at bring replaced. There is even some indication that she brought about the destruction of the dwemer and House Dagoth, simply because a dwemer scholar proved her fallible. maybe all the descriptions fit her. But it is up to the player, what to texts to believe or not believe. And the villian Dagoth Ur himself can become a sympathetic figure...

Thats not the complain point... we all know thats the RPG base. It would be morronic to complain about that. I think you didn t get the right point in the sarcasm, next time i ll quote it.
And you get your solid answears below.



Ho yeah ? when ? Can you refresh my failing memory ?



Partially true, see below.



Wrong, the first time he dies, and he dies many times because AI is combat wise and attitude wise dumb, the games setting hit you like a punch in the face.
Anyway, you imediatly know your a hero anyway and you know obviously your re on the main quest from mission one.
The emperor tell you " You you re the one of my dreams" "and when about to die " Only you can shut down the jaws of oblivion" or something like that. So you re not even out or the training fase and you know what you have to do clearly.....
Would you be able to tell that this was the main quest line or not when Caius send you to bug out and get some spine ? Had you related caius to the strange dreams ? where you sure they where related ?
In Daggerfall your e freaking half dorwn messenger that end up freaked beaten, was the message important, probably not, wat it important.

I hope your able to see the main context diference...but i m sure you won t admit it.

But in player attitude not knowing anything about the game at the start it make all the diference. We know we are the hero, we know we are one of a kind, we know we have superpowers (which is inedit in TES).

What more do you want me to show you ?

actually we know it just the same way you would know it in Morrowind if someone spolied you where going to become Nevarine before it was released back in the day. As far as I rmember intervju points towards Skyrims story starting with your character not knowing he is going to be a hero, just like Morrowind.

double

Not necessarily there are ways to do it smartly. The problem is that players will have to deal with the consequences of their acts. And Bethesda has already shown it doesn t want to have people deal with the consequences of their acts:
No child killing, Immortal characters linked to the main quest, side quest migrating from A to B if you kill A or A is killed someway. They still could have a failure overtime as in Daggerfall but we don t know yet.

Every plot can't be same damn thing, but it also can NOT be filled with two dimensional and flat characters. Shivering Isles wasn't the same plot or story as morrowind, but it was a well-crafted one. That's all I am asking for.

I am not asking for some morality system or character development system mirroring mass effect or other bioware games, but for the characters in the main quest and lore other than the PC to be complex and well-fleshed out.


BTW: I don't give a crap about the skills or gameplay mechanics, this thread is about the story and story-telling methods. So plz take those complaints to other threads.

there is consequences, and there is making the game un-winnable or just annoying, so what if MQ people dies or quests become uncompleted, people would just load a save any way.

this way we just avoid un-needed reloads.


as a side note...why ya hop over the few good points I said before? I smell ignorance.

If you think it is a worthy advice, maybe you should begin from yourself? I like constructive criticism myself.


I can't. I'm still playing it.

---

I think there will be twist/twists in Skyrim storyline which will satisfy our needs. Todd Howard remained silent about the ending when asked in podcast. Maybe the whole Dragonborn business will turn out as a misunderstanding/misinterpretation. Who knows?

And for the record my criticism earlier is against the presentation but not the story itself, I haven't finished Oblivion Main Quest yet.

Also in TES, rather than pre-scripted consequences activated by logic gates and often unreflective dialog choices which is known as choices&consequences, it is more about sandbox gameplay which lets us to act first, face consequences later.

no child killing? really? u really bothered about that? if u could kill children in skyrim the game would be banned in half of the countries in the world..

I don't know what you're complaining about then. The characters in the main quest and other quests in Oblivion were complex and fleshed out. There's no reason to assume the same won't be for Skyrim.

Really early on... if you're not an idiot. You get early indications about what will happen and as long as you are not totally brain-dead you'll figure out that Nevarine is returning and your fate is tied to theirs in some way. And you know you're tied to the big events pretty much straight away because the Emperor springs you from a grim fate.


Stupid AI is a problem of many videogames, what do you expect me to say about that?
He speaks much but says little during that portion of the game.
And a member of the Blades (who are like the Secret Service) taking you into training wasn't a tip off to you that the Emperor had some kinda expectations out of you? Wow, you're thick.




No, but you can learn how to spell and some basic grammar so I can refute you properly.

Well, I disagree with you on that. The only thing any of the characters elicited was annoyance (mainly Martin). Dagon was portrayed in very bland, black and white terms. Mankar Camoran was the only interesting one out of the bunch, but we didn't have much text beyond the commentaries into his history or viewpoints. Martin's "speeches" made me watch to punch the screen. The motivations and backgrounds on the common Mythic Dawn members was severely lacking, unlike info on the 6th house or ashlander tribes, the Tribunal Temple, etc.....

Maybe I am thick, but I still doubted that I would be the Nerevarine until Corpus, or the moon & star. I don't remember exactly which, but I do remember thinking well into the main quest if I was going to have to find the Nerevar.