PLEASE ! change the design of dragons : V - Skyrim

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:03 am

What do you mean? Those dragons screens you posted look great, OP! Beth did quite a good job there.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:56 pm

Okay, levitation makes the lift generated by the Caster, EQUAL to the forces keeping the caster down, you walk up you go up cause levitation generates lift, but if the lift generated by levitation wasn't equal to the forces keeping you down, mainly gravity, then you would have something akin to lowered gravity, making it easier for you to do things like jump or something, having enough lift from something such as a partial levitation spell, a human COULD (Not sure if im doing this right) fly by flapping hir/her arms, normally that wouldnt work becuase of many reasons, but with significant help from and outside source such as a levitation spell it would (think of latching ALOT of balloons to yourself just barely not enough to make you float) same goes for dragons.

If Levitation only generates "lift" equally opposing gravity, then the caster would float, but would still need extra force to actually move.
What? Flapping ones arms does not generate any lift, whatsoever, under any circumstance. Your example of a lot of balloons (alot isn't a word) is flawed because, assuming you are talking about helium balloons, the helium in the balloons is lighter than the air outside the balloons, so it rises. This is doesn't mean that Helium is counteracting the effect of gravity, it isn't. Under normal circumstances, gases arrange themselves by weight, the heaviest being at the bottom. So in the atmosphere, heavier gases are near the surface, and lighter gases reside near the atmosphere. This is why it's hard to breath high up in the air (like atop a mountain). It's because there is less oxygen in the air due to the weight of the gas.
No part of a human is lighter than air. Flapping arms does not generate any lifting effect because there is nothing about the human arms designed to catch a wind that would allow the rest of the body to become airborne.

As far as dragons are concerned, it's very possible that they can fly because their wings are very light. From the screen shots the wings looked a bit transparent which lends to the idea that the wings would be designed to be light enough to not add much additional weight to the beast, yet strong enough to not tear in the wind. Almost like a spider's web. The web's are light enough to catch a wind and allow a baby spider to float along on the current, yet strong enough to not tear. And assuming a dragon has some similarities to other flying creatures (namely birds), they would have extremely light, yet strong bones which would reduce the weight dramatically, while also allowing the dragons to not break their bones when landing and walking.

EDIT: Let's also remember that this is a fantasy beast. If the devs say the dragons can fly then the dragons can fly.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:24 pm

Actually I see no big difference between Bethesda's designs and the ones you posted.Both are generic...-_-

Though I am not desperate about the design of Bethesda's dragons as I am about the design of world in general.Those wind dragons were something.
And I'm expecting different looking dragons as well,like maybe skeletal ones,hard shelled tortoise looking dragons (unable to flight perhaps),maybe sea dragons,perhaps eastern looong,flying serpent dragons,and daedric ones =D

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:49 pm

There's no way in hell they're gonna change the design at this point, so your point is moot.

but then again, that's just my opinion.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:56 am

You silly people don't you get it? You need gemstones to fly if your a dragon... DUH..

ALL DRAGON LOVERS you will watch this

You're all welcome in advance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0j0Bjy6hFc&feature=related

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:28 am

I agree with the OP, in that more sinuous, serpentine, huge-winged dragons generally look far nicer, and are much less likely to look silly in flight.

I loved the dragon designs in the film Reign of Fire: http://content7.flixster.com/skin/profile/68/78/29/6878297_profile_mbox_background.jpg

There may be a reason why this type of dragon is never (that I know of) attempted in modern computer games, though. The massive wingspan and very complex shape of a more sinuous body would make them very difficult to animate and interact with in the gameworld, I think.

This.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:09 am

It all makes sense now. Thank you.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:03 am

The number of limbs, the length of the wing, whether it's wyvern or dragon don't really matter to me, it's all fiction, let the creators decided what they want. Though, with a larger wingspan, it can cast a more terrifying shadow over the puny stickmen below.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:13 am

(doubled)

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:03 am

I'll just say it like this, BIg muscles and heavy scares people, a slender, tiny dragon, whos only ability would be to fly "realistic" would make people just react like, "Oh, another Dragon, wonder what i get this time".
While a big, bulky one, who moves fastly towords you, will make you run away.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:18 am

The dragons in skyrim are better I think. They are more impressive, the size of the wings is a little short, I agree with that but wouldn't it be difficult to animate it in the town if it was too big? I want beautiful dragons attack upon towns.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:20 am

Well the OP reads my mind, first thing i noticed seeing a Skyrim dragon where that tiny wings wich look kinda funny, and not appropriate to a such majestic being like dragon

While the exmples below might look bit over the top, they are one of best dragon designs i've ever seen

Lineage 2 Dragons

Valakas
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bGyJ4XmZ5-g/TJ13MzEgU2I/AAAAAAAAAD0/9a5Xo8sI6Vk/s1600/Valakas+Chronicle+4.jpg
http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/9/7/18/f_Valakasm_45104f3.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/f/shot00079wx0.jpg/

Lindvior
http://l2.eogamer.com/wiki/images/l2/0/09/Lindvior-03.jpg
http://www.pirateninjas.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/layer_update9_2.jpg

Antaras (this one is wingless, its an eartsh dragon aferall!)
https://www.l2tnt.com.br/images/boss/Antharas.jpg
http://l2vnally.com/wp-content/uploads/bigImg06_01.jpg

As i told earlier their bit overdone and wouldnt fit TES at all, but look at their complexity, iv'e seen their models bone structures and impressivly done animations, great detail

There's no way in hell they're gonna change the design at this point, so your point is moot.

but then again, that's just my opinion.

There's much still lot of time before the release, nobody wants to change the current design, just make wings bit bigger because now it looks like an flying rooster

I agree with that but wouldn't it be difficult to animate it in the town if it was too big? I want beautiful dragons attack upon towns.

Difficult or not, its doable, but after seeing the animation quality we've seen in previous games it might be even impossible :rolleyes:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:54 am

but wouldn't it be difficult to animate it in the town if it was too big?

Solution? Knock down the building! :flamethrower:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:23 am

Not a fan of the dragons you posted. The most memorable dragons and dragon fights for me are still the Baldur's Gate 2 ones. Yours look more like a bat than a dragon.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:51 am

I prefer it when they have forelegs. They just look like birds with scales otherwise.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:21 am

I'm not sure if anyone has already posted with this in mind, but what if the few dragons that we've seen the best pictures of are simply one type of dragon model? Everyone's been listing this and that with the thought that they'd only have one body type. As far as I've seen, at least one type of enemy will have various different models generated (some undead creature, a couple of undead warriors from what it looked like). I'd think they may have a few variations with most of the rest.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:58 am

I prefer it when they have forelegs. They just look like birds with scales otherwise.

And the troll in the image is basically just a hairy person with an extra eye.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:46 am

Not a fan of the dragons you posted. The most memorable dragons and dragon fights for me are still the Baldur's Gate 2 ones. Yours look more like a bat than a dragon.

That got me interested.I don't know those,could you possibly have pictures as well?

I like that last Lineage dragon.The first looks kinda generic as well,the second one is not but I don't really like it.Still,I like it more when I do not like them all as long as they are not standart designs.Makes me feel that the game is about choices and preferances =D

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:47 am

snip

EDIT: just wanted to clarify, this may or may not be exactly right but it wasn't supposed to be, just wanted to give everyone a idea of how dragons may be able to fly.

If it would look silly for a human to do why would it not look silly for a dragon to do the same thing? If they can levitate then why do they need wings? There are a million different problems with that, all stemming from the fact that it, fantasy or not, just plain does not make sense.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:26 pm

I think that dragon looks pretty neat. Maybe it could have bigger wings, but naah, not such a big deal really.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:07 am

I prefer it when they have forelegs. They just look like birds with scales otherwise.

Birds don't use their wings as forelegs, like we saw with the dragon breathing fire at the warrior in one of the gi scans.

Like I've been saying anyways, is anyone really going to be wondering why these dragons don't have forelegs when they're dive bombing us, or straifing us with fire, or crash landing and trying to eat us? As long as the animation is natural, and the combat is both challenging and entertaining along with visually stunning, I could honestly not care less. I'm actually quite surprised we've been able to get 10 pages worth of comments on if dragons wings should be larger or not and if they should have forelegs. I'm much more conserned about how they act ingame, and if they move realisticly.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:53 am

I agree with the OP, more realistic wings would be better.

particularly, the problem with the wings not being attached to the body, this occurs in other games, not just Skyrim, and I've always hated it. In RL, winged creatures (bats and bird for example) all have their wings attached to their sides, it allows for a much greater surface area. Skyrim dragons however have thw wing membrane spread out between the fingers only. I can see no logical reason why dragons would evolve a less efficient method of flight.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:07 am

I'm a massive fan of the Reign of Fire dragons so much so I sell an inspired similarly designed dragon for poser, and am working on a second similar design (my avatar). Having said that I love seeing new iterations, different designs for dragons. I like what they have so far, and don't expect them to change anything. I can't wait to be roasted alive by one until I figure out how to defeat it.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:15 pm

Haku, the dragon in Spirited Away, had no wings at all, yet he managed to fly. http://www.absoluteanime.com/spirited_away/haku2.jpg

It's worth considering that Skyrim is on the planet Nirn, which may well have a different air density to planet Earth. The physics in Cyrodil are certainly pretty funky - pick up a cup and everything else on the table flies across the room!

I must say it takes a special kind of arrogance to come here and say, in caps no less, "PLEASE change..." whatever. Buy or do not buy the game. If you absolutely must see dragons with wings the size of a 747 make your own game, movie, painting or sculpture.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:59 am

Probably a dragon with bigger wings would appear more fearsome, so yes, I agree with the OP about the wingspans. But we have to see more, if there are several types of dragons, maybe there will be ones with larger wingspan.