I sincerely hope Ken didn't said that line *seriously*. If devs have "listened to the kids", it's because of their own greed, not this forum' fault, community's fault, or even the own kids' fault.

I could say right now that I want Skyrim to be set in Modern Japan, and it to have giant swords, colorful women with miniskirts and ninja jutsus instead of TES magic system. Will the devs implement that only because I said it? Nopes, because that (surely) won't sell a bit. But in the other hand, some pretty awful things said "by kids" (like nearly no text in the game, besides books) would sell because they're kind of a mass market today. And it SELLS.

So I hope they don't blame any other than themselves, if what he said was serious.

I didn't feel like he was blaming the audience. More like he was regretting that more or less any entertainment sector should consider so absolutely concepts as "target audience" or "they did that in that game and it sold". Combining freedom of creation and economic health is a very fine line to walk indeed.

While I regret a lot of ready-cut aspects of Oblivion, I cannot deny it helped the game sell, which in turn makes more money for Bethesda, which in turn gives them more devs and freedom and technical capability for Skyrim. Bit of a conundrum. :mellow:

That's only a supposition. There's still no way to tell Skyrim is also oversimplified (it doesn't seems like that...in a way, but I would't put my hands on the fire for now).

Who cares what the kids want. Said kids are also smart enough to know that every elf sounded the same.

Why would they not listen to the kids when doing what the kids want gets them more money?

Yes, you are right. But it seems to me, the wealthier a company gets, the more opportunity there is for them to take a risk and make an atypical game - insofar that if they fail, the consequence isn't that harsh for the future of said company.

... Or maybe it is just me clinging to mad mad hope.

Yes trust everything from wikipedia

and I do like the dialog in Oblivion, in Morrowind it was like someone said hello to you and then handed you an encyclopedia

I would rather have kids that think before they start pointless threads.

Well, you're right, of course. Also, maybe with Oblivion Bethesda has a nice opportunity to start "from below"...having kids get used to an easy gameplay experience, then gradually adding more things to do, more complexity, a more mature arc story, etc...

Heck, they could even sell Skyrim as "an Oblivion with EVEN MORE features!" I'm sure kids would totally fall for that

You kidding? All they need to say is Dragons and they'll be fine with the kids.

Even an older player like myself is getting a little excited for that. :whistling:

This is the second time a mod has had to pop in to remind folks to not flame other members. That doesn't bode well. If you can't make a point without resorting to personal attacks, just don't post.

Which is why a more complex RPG is needed. Something to make the kids actually think instead of being led by the hand at every step and telling them how to complete a task instead of letting them come up with their own solutions.

If the devs were to make an RPG how they wanted to instead of catering to a certain group that's what we would have.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Sorry, I just thought about GPS's in taxis...

I remember when I visited my cousins who were 15-16 years old. I saw that they had Oblivion and I asked them if they liked it. They said no because "it had to much talking and it was to hard to understand what was going on."

In Oblivion's deffence, those kids probably would have said the same thing about Morrowind.

I like voice acting, I really do. The problem for me though, is that I rarely listen to the voice acting, because I would rather read what they are saying because it takes them too damn long to say it.

dont blame the youngsters for pressuring the bethesda developers :nono:

Two out of millions. I know many youth and old folks that loved Oblivion. In fact most I meet that play it and don't spend time on game forums answer that they love it. Such second hand news means little. The sells speak for themselves. And while I was disappointed in some aspects of Oblivion, I also was in MW and I am sure I will have some disappointments in Skyrim. But in all so far the enjoyment far exceeded the disappointments.

When Oblivion first came out, and I played without mods, I thought it was cool to hear all the voices. But as greater and greater mods appeared, all without voices, I started to like to read the communication, also.

Listed guys speak sense

Another "we're hardcoe gamers damn these new players damn everyone for buying Oblivion and not forcing Bethesda to make Morrowind 2!"

You people need to chill out, play some Mario Kart or something

Kids also adapt very well. A game developer told me "the art is finding the balance of annoyance and acceptance". Let's examine this statement from Morrowind and Oblivion side.
Magicka: Regenerative in Oblivion, lost in Morrowind. In Oblivion you just keep trading off regenerative magicka to health. How is that good game design? What's the purpose of finding and making potions?
Beds, houses, camps: There is no need to sleep, as long as magicka is regenerative.
Foodstuffs: Why are they in the game? There is no nutrition system (need for drink and food), and your stamina always regenerates to its full potential.
Fumbles and flukes: All strike of luck seems to be stripped. I haven't played a single RPG where chance was not a major, and sometimes very fun, aspect. I realize the save/load exploit.
Travel: Morrowind probably felt a bit hard core, but there were so many other options most didn't bother. Oblivions fast travel feels so cheap and exploitative it's hard to use, it just feels sooo wrong and badly implemented, that traveling by foot is now the *only* option we have.

Is nutrition hard core and should be hidden in some "hard core mode"? No I don't think so. There is food stuffs in pretty much every container, and if you can't be bothered eating at least once a day in a role playing game, then role playing game is not for that person. Hard core shouldn't be if features are in or out of a game, it should be how convenient they are. And people will adapt to it.

In a game there must be mechanics in so that players wants to use it, have a reason to, make it purposeful. What if we were given a stick and had to imagine it was a sword, would that work well? As much as I like free games, you can't expect us to role play every missing feature or game mechanic in the game. Even back when I played dice based RPG, a GM would come up with reasons to use the most silly skills I had.

What I think is really bizarre, is that Bethesda is going more and more away from traditional RPG, while action game makers like Rockstar is bringing in more and more. Leaving kids with all the fun stuff, and the serious players with an empty shell of a game.

I would leave game designing to game designers and not 11-25 year olds that think they could implement everything they want into the games better than people who are professionals at it.

You might think that you could make an amazing TES game, but remember; if you can't play it, it's not a game.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:M%27aiq_the_Liar

:D