Anyone who thinks that a game where you have to stop and rest every 30 seconds because your fatigue is drained just by moving around is good should stick to playing their favorite game.

The rest of us want to move forward into the next millenium.

Honestly I think an example of good streamlining would be if target spells automatically function as touch spells when in range of your target, for a more potent effect without being a separate spell.

I see certain confoundment, although it would still work (spell creation). If people dont want to mess with it, then they dont have to. Could it use balance? I dont care, I can balance myself, but if thats what it takes to get the almost endless possobilities of spell creation, a thing that made ES unique, a thing thats been in since Arena, then do it. Just dont get rid of it.

As for the argument regarding spellmaking, I don't see how there being new effects should make spellmaking impossible. That just doesn't make any sense to me no matter what they say. That said, the limitations on Oblivion's spellmaking made it virtually worthless in my eyes I'd only care if it offered more freedoms.

We edited each other out of relevancy...

Maybe?




Now, I understand your points, so I wasn't calling you anything, if that wasn't clear. I'm just saying how it probably looks to someone who maybe stakes a little too much on internet arguments. I feel anyone aruging against spellmaking on a platform of anything other than dire necessity (IE, it would have broken or delayed the game) hasn't taken the time to consider any other perspective but their own.


Bethesda has already stated they're looking into spellmaking, I don't think the issue has anything to do with how the effects work. If anything, the complicated effects make spellmaking infinitely more meaningful. Why wouldn't someone be able to make a spell with the spell effects we've seen?

This is an interesting perspective, since I wanted SC to be made more deep as well. But this would result in the more "spreadsheety", than less (according to certain PR jargon). After OB, I said yeas, but more please. And now its on the verge of being cut.

I have covered alot of this in various topics but here goes the condensed version.

spears.. only worth a bit of work yet would increase melee weapon workload by 33%.. Not worth it.

Xbows.. even worse would double ranged weapon workload yet would not be used by all that many poeple.. fact is few people like xbows.

armor slots... come up with more then 4 clothing slots that map one to one with your armor slots... and remember one those those clothing items is a robe...

classes... how many people asked why did you ask me that when ob came out?.. about 500000 thats how many.

Birthsigns.. only 2 es games had em likely only those 2 ever will.

atributes.... when skills came to es atributes drasticaly changed to make way.. We now add perks as the main driver of the character and skill the minor.. there simply was less room. So they compacted it to what was its core... get over it already its not as if any of the 8 atribuites was amazingly anazing.

Then people would cry and complain, because they'd have to hit fewer buttons to do it, and thus is "dumbed down.

Trust me, theres no hope for people like these. If its not spot on to how their favorite game, no matter how [censored] it was, then they'll complain. TBH people like this should just Please continue, my good sir. and not play if they dont like it. Go back to your morrowind and daggerfall...

The problem would be that there are less types of spells you can select from the drop-down box in the spellcrafting tool...

Fixed.

Of course. The less clutter you have, the dumber it must be.

At the end of the day though, if its intuitive, they dont like it.

I like how no one has considered the VARIETY of spells you get, in exchange for casting ball A, which does X fire damage, and ball B, which does x/3 fire damage, and y lightning damage...

Now you can just put fire and lightning in either hand and throw them at the same time. Awe man, thats so "dumbed down". On top of being able to set a trap with either spell, cast a fire ball, flame thrower, lightning bolt all with the same 2 spells in hand.

Very dumb... You only have like 6 actions now with out having to change your spells out once. Very dumb indeed....

No one has stopped for 2 damn seconds to think that this is actually a SWEET new spell system. Its not the same old [censored] you've done forever.

Spell making wouldnt even make sense with this system. What are you gana do? Make a lighting ball flame thrower combo spell of doom? Go play magicka...

Removing anything dumbs down the series as far as your concerned. If you would have had your way after Daggerfall then Morrowind would have been bloated with features and would not have been the broad commercial success that it was and we wouldn't be here because neither would Bethesda.


Right, through the power of imagination and the magic of mathematics. Put down the pen and paper and join us here in the 21st century where such things can be stimulated visually. You don't need that 22 sided die anymore either, put that down too we have super computers in every home now. Marvel at the technology that brings us REAL time interaction with virtual environments.

They're all math nerds.

Visuals have no importance to them, unless of course its nudity in skyrim

As our favorite daggerfall fan would say, lets keep things spreadsheety, and eschew any change

All I see here is the fallacious hyperbole that RPGs are math oriented and hard to understand. You have to be extremely simple minded if you think anything about any TES was spreadsheety, complex, needed advanced calculus to understand etc. And no, If I had it my way, we'd have the deepest, feature rich game ever, but it wouldnt appeal the graphics hounds, or newbs.
Anybody who thinks this way, I doubt has ever even played a TES.

Alright, I must say that I loved just about everything in Morrowind (except those F@*^king Cliff Racers. GD sky rats), and yes I will miss the things they took out of the later games, but honestly people you need to stop complaining about it. You almost NEVER hear people complain about pass wall getting cut, or any of the cool items from the FIRST THREE GAMES that they haven't brought back. Just so everyone knows what I am talking about pass wall was a spell that literally let you delete sections of the dungeon you were in. You want to flank that Troll? Pass wall. Can't run fast enough to escape the collapsing tunnel? Pass wall. Need a soda, but you're in the bathroom? ...pass wall?

Anyway, you get the point. I will say one thing that has bugged me about later TES games that never made sense. Why remove crossbows? lol. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I think there is a medium here that needs to be met. I don't see how optional customization features are "bloated" if you want a simplistic RPG, Bioware is always willing to accommodate (and I'm not even saying I don't like Bioware games, I do) but what those in favor of streamlining or whatever the hell makes you feel warm inside to call don't seem to grasp is that the in-depth "spreadsheety" customization is a cornerstone of TES. What some see as complicated is easily navigable for those who enjoy it. I've been a fan since Morrowind and when Oblivion came out I had mixed feelings, I wasn't opposed. I approve of features like perks, compasses, fast travel which many other old-time players do not, but still oppose things like the removal of spellmaking and other core, traditional features. Tell me right now that Oblivion, as it was, did not make good money and expand the fan base. At a certain point you can either stick to your loyals or become something completely unrecognizable. Now I'll pass no great judgement until I've played the game, I came into Fallout: New Vegas with a heavily negative outlook and it nearly ruined it for me straight away. All I'm saying is, everyone needs to give in a little.

You also doubt that life has moved forward since 1996 or so, so I'm not shocked.

Explain to me why i keep whacking those damn creatures over the head with a very sharp sword, and yet they only get hurt 2/3 of the time?

Or why sometimes people have voices, but most of the time they hand me pieces of paper with what they are trying to communicate to me scrawled on them?

I'll admit, i never played daggerfall, i was more of a microprose/wolfenstien 3d kind of guy, but morrowind was lame

Well said.

We people who are "graphic hounds" have a reason to be so. When we really get into a game, whether its for the story, the mechanics, or the characters, we like it to feel as real as possible. Sure you can have a spell that will summon a super-nova onto the screen that sends lightning bolts that strikes every one of your enemies, that you yourself crafted, but if it looks like donkey [censored], no ones gonna care, which leads to the biggest issue. People always argue that Bethesda is "conforming to the masses and not the die-hard fans", well if they didn't cater to the masses AT ALL, as some people think they should(not necessarily saying you), then there would be NO elder scrolls to begin with. Not having SC is a little annoying, I agree. I liked having the power to make a spell that had multiple effects, like a lightning spell that caused knock back, or a freezing spell that temporarily paralyzed them, but its not the end of the world. SC isn't a make it or break it mechanic, it was just a luxury. Anyway, its not like any of this speculation arguments matter, cause that's what they are, speculation. Nobody but the developers have played the game, so nobody BUT the developers can truly judge it yet.

Also, they haven't removed birth signs completely. Instead you have to find sets of three standing stones that replace birth signs. This way you can change which sign you want so long as you are willing to find the right stone.

It is make or break for me. I make dozens and dozens of characters, I may have 5 different mages and I never reuse a spell. Spell creation allows this. Removing it removes classes. The opinion of people that want to get Skyrim to be generic Nord Warrior Dragonborn number 4, play through the MQ once and get rid of the game dont matter to me (not saying you). While I'll continue to advocate RP diversity, gameplay variety and etc.

How can you let such a small thing ruin a potentially amazing game for you? I know everyone has their own opinion on things, and I'm not trying to start an argument here, but I'm just not able to understand how people can hate on a game so much for all these little things that aren't what the games are legendary for. What makes TES so amazing, the immersion factor, how when I am in just a gaming spree, up at 2 a.m. in morrowind or oblivion, and have been playing since 5 pm, I start to think I am this badass berserker or mage, that I get sad when a character I got a connection to died, the revolutionary combat system, I mean how many first person fantasy rpg franchises are there? I can only think of two. Not to mention the great stories that those brains at bethesda are able to come up with.

removing birth signs and classes, may have something to do with the storyline. u are dragonborn.

Because its not small, its a corner stone of ES. Its a feature that made ES stick out from its contemporaries. I can think up and create new RPs all the time just from SC. It allows almost limitless possibilities. Some of my favorite RPs wouldnt even be possible without SC. Its the equivalent of getting rid of enchanting, although worse IMO.