[Rant]

Sure, I love the idea of dual wielding combat. And the (unconfirmed) ideas for the smithing skill sounds like it could be the coolest thing to happen to TES. But how can you justify adding that by taking away features that were already in place??

The explanations of time or technical limitations just don't make sense. How much time would it take when you had it in a previous game?? And it was possible on the original xbox but not the 360?

Or that these and other features were broken... its a single player game!

Could you imagine if Beth had only EXPANDED and improved upon the TES games since morrowind, instead of "streamlining" (dumbing down) them??

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Smithing skill has been confirmed.

You haven't even played the game yet. So you have NO IDEA how it will work and neither do any of us. This complaining is getting ridiculous.

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Oh now you have done it you said the "bad word" Streamlining is a no no


Now the bethesda fan bois will come out and claim that any game with a story is an RPG and complexity in character creation, leveling up and equipment choices has nothing to do with RPGs

Gets yourself a flame proof suit quick

What has happened in the last 9 years is depressing. Morrowind was a technical masterpiece


Skyrim is all about pretty colors and dragons (oh and cashing in on new customers)

Please explain to me how a ton of useless, pointless, cluttering features being kept in could possibly be a good thing.

You still haven't convinced me how Skyrim's character creation is any less complex. Until you do that, you're 100% flammable :flamethrower:

Yeah sure, we'd have a overly complicated convoluted mess that would be interesting only to the most anolly retentive of gamers.

I don't think Daggerfal offers any more gameplay then Morrowind or Oblivion. Its just different. Frankly, the intro to daggerfall is atrocious. Its long, makes little sense to the first time player and really doesn't make much difference in the scheme of things.





Exactly. No one can say because WE"VE NOT EVEN SEEN IT !!! let alone used it.

Exactly!

Complexity means "many parts in intricate arrangement" by removing birth signs and classes it makes it less complex by definition, no? Whether or not this is a case were it was a good decision is yet to be seen, I prefer to expect the worse that way I won't be disappointed.

I know what has been confirmed to not be in the game, and I'd like to know the reasoning behind it.

Anyone who played morrowind and was stoked out of their mind for oblivion knows how disappointing it is when features are cut.

And when I said "unconfirmed" about he smithing skill, I was talking about the possible ways we can use it... I know the skill itself is confirmed, but if we can (for example) make either an even glass sword or a Nordic glass sword; well, that's pretty freakin cool

Well we know the character creation wont work the same as previous titles. That in no way says its any less complex or engaging.

Less weapon types. Well simple really. Less core weapon types. If we're able to create our own based apon the the core, then we have MORE variation if anything. Ditto for the armour.

Like what??
I can see how having so many skills might be argued as cluttering. But I don't see how spellmaking, levitation, spears, etc would be useless, pointless or cluttering.

What you choose in the character creation menu isn't all that goes into creating a character. The loss of classes is really no less complex because we have all the same skills (well, 18 of them). Just because you choose some as a Major skill doesn't add complexity. You will still limit yourself (or not limit yourself as the old system also allowed) as you play the game. The loss of birthsigns is a direct loss. However, the addition of perks more than makes up for it. Perks are going to make character creation and development much more complex, even if they all svck. More variety, more options. "Many perks in intricate arrangement".


Okay.

Less weapon types: What do you mean by this? We still have all the weapon types Oblivion had. We may even have more variety in the weapon types, from what we've seen. 13 ores for Smithing probably means 13 weapon materials. Oblivion had 8.

Armor slots: We can only speculate of course, but I imagine it was to eliminate clipping, either what comes naturally from the detail they're adding to armor, or from options added in Smithing.

No spellmaking: Caused by the complexity of the new spells. Spells are not just the same projectiles with different skins now. Lightning bolts and fireballs are different things. Additionally, each spell can apparently be cast in different ways, which would be pretty hard for spellmaking to duplicate. In general they're going a different direction with magic, one that does not lend itself well to spellmaking.

Well spellmaking hasn't been confirmed out yet, and neither has less armor slots (I doubt cuirass and grieves were combined). I will agree that streamlining is terrible no matter how you cut it.

Right, Mr. Baggins.

I never get why your morrowind addicts ever look for another game. Just keep adding on more mods to the greatest game ever, since you will be disappointed by any deviation from your already perfect game.

Please show me any RPG series that didn't streamline in this day and age.

All companies do this. It's not necessarily a bad thing as long as you don't go the direction that Dragon Age did. And please, just because people defend Bethesda doesn't mean they're labeled as "fan bois," that's an immature generalization.

As for the topic of taking away things; We've never developed any form of video game entertainment before, we have no idea what's behind the mechanics of Skyrim and whether or not it can support aspects of past games, so when I see [censored] like "Wow, the Devs are just lazy lulululz" just makes me :facepalm:

Why do kids get this false persona? I have no idea and it troubles me, because none of us truly know what's behind the curtains of Skyrim. Taking away crap could be due to the small RAM size of the Xbox 360, doesn't fit with the game mechanics, game balance issue, etc. Not Dev. laziness. That's just childish when people (I'm not saying you do) point out stuff like that.

Fewer weapon types than Morrowind, maybe, but the same amount of weapon types as the other three games in the series. Morrowind is the odd one out with throwing weapons, crossbows, and spears. I'll miss them, but only for variety's sake. I never used them.

Also, it's aggravating to see so many people miss the point of balance in a single-player game. Balance is not just to make for fair competition. It's to make it so that all approaches to playing the game are equally valid. If spellmaking or whatever other thing is ridiculously overpowered then it eliminates all challenge from the game, and makes it so that characters who don't use the feature in question are far less effective by comparison. "Don't use it then" is not a valid answer, either. If I shouldn't use it then why is it in the game at all? It might as well not be there if using it ruins the game. Armor slots being reduced... I'm really not sure what the logic was. I don't buy the explanation that it's "streamlining," because I'm fairly certain that most gamers can understand the concept of wearing pants. It may have been for balance reasons, memory concerns (doubtful) or just plain aesthetics, so that people aren't wandering around pantsless but well-armored somehow. It's a change that I dislike but that I can live with.

Go sob somewhere else with your petty complaints. They make the game the way they want to, and you don't have to purchase it. Here is a spoiler for you though, you will anyways because you're just being a whiny sap.

You put more faith in humanity than I do.

For spellmaking, you can see my thread http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1163948-why-no-spell-making-is-a-good-thing/page__p__17107133__fromsearch__1#entry17107133
Levitation creates design challenges, as well as is impossibly with closed off cities.
Spears seem pointless to me. I don't see what they add to the gameplay, they're a long reaching sword, and honestly I don't even feel a spear belongs in the land of the nords.

My previous comment was directed towards skills.

There's absolutely no reason to get rid of spell creation and every reason to keep it. Removing it dumbs down the series.

Skyrim has seen vast improvements. Is a slight lack of some armor going to ruin the game for you? And who said less weapon types? Last I heard, there was 13 types of ore. Spell effects are great looking and each is unique. For example, lightning now drains magicka as well as health, which diversifies it from the other Destruction spells. Plus you have dragon shouts.
And the perk trees (if they are done right. Probably) they will yield much more fruit in the way of character creation, role playing.
And 70 voice actors.
I could stay here all night listing improvements. Don't let a few take-outs ruin the game.

If you have in one subset 5 variables and another subset you have 3

How is one not more complex then the other?

How is attributes not a complexity? How is the choice of a birth sign not a complex choice?


In Skyrim you pick a race and a gender and your off

In Morrwind you pick a race, a gender, pick a class, or create a class, pick majors and minors, pick a birth sign, and on and on

If you really cant see one is more complex then there is no reason to continue this conflict as there is no resolution