I can't decide if I want it changed/removed or what. I sure would not want to have to cut short my battles/exploration because I'm too fatigued to go on without sleep that would get down right irritating. But if fatigue had more affect on things then wouldn't I just have to drink or cast a restore fatigue and keep on trucking ?

So in that case it almost seems pointless. On the other hand I think it would be cool to have fatigue be an initial force of limitation that you deal with when you are at low levels and inexperienced but would maybe become almost nothing to worry about as you level up.

Realism is not irrelevant even in fantastic setting games. look at gravity, woudnt it be stupid if there was no gravity?(unless altered by a spell of course.) the thing is Realism does not always mean no magic and [censored] it just means make it feel REAL and in a fantastic world magic is real and so is gravity. and the fact that fatique does not work and is completely illogical makes it feel unreal.

It was used to determine how much damage you dished out on your enemies, for those that don't understand what it was for. Once it got close to zero, I was swinging for hours. I think they should refurbish it completely. Maybe if you're an acrobat, you'd need a certain amount of it for performing moves, dodging, and blocking possibly, but not for swinging swords and DMG.

I've never missed in Oblivion. Combat was more skill based, not stat based. Thats all. You missed because YOU missed. Not because your character was fatigued.



Yes Morrowind could be tedious. Especially at the very begining when you miss 95% of attacks, if your using a weapon your character does not have the skill to use. Which is what made choosing the correct class and skill set at the begining so important. I'm not saying it excuses the 95% of missed attacks with a club against a worm.... thats just.... wrong *allthough it simply worsens the 85% misses you would have had with your level 10 blunt weapon skill. But being able to complete the mages guild in oblivion with a lvl 10 warrior that has like... 1 single flame spell.... and being named grandmaster.... its just pathetic....

Anyway, the point is, Morrowind's fatigue system had obvious flaws and Oblivion's was just for show.

A game feature should never make the game a pain in the rear, so realism should take a back seat to fun. While stamina would be reduced by running long distances for normal humans in real life, it just makes a game tedious.

Having fatigue become a factor of substance in combat and spell casting is another matter. Perhaps it wasn't noticeable enough in Oblivion, but this feature in Morrowind, and from the description of it in Daggerfall, just take away from the fun factor that should be the games main feature. Obviously, some people like the "challenge" that features like this provide, but I think for most of us, it's just an extra hassle to deal with and/ or a waste of real time.

Peace, +Petrose

Real. Visual. Feedback.

Oblivion's fatigue system was fine, but when you could swing your sword with just as much "GRAAAH" and vigor with a depleted fatigue bar as with a full one, regardless of whether it did too little damage or not, it never felt right. With low fatigue, the player should pant. Visually slump. Really struggle on those swings. It's the same problem as in Morrowind's combat system, only not as severe. Heck, even Morrowind gave you fatigue feedback by making you pass out every five seconds.

I really did like Daggerfall's fatigue system though. I admit, when I first played, I thought the fatigue bar was the health bar, and it confused me.

Definitely agree it should be renamed.

Right now it's "Oh boy I just increased Strength and Endurance so I have more Fatigue, how wonderful" and that doesn't sound right.

Also, in addition to being renamed Stamina or something, it should be more important in Oblivion. Swing weapons is okay, though maybe the affect should be a little greater. But running should cause you to lose (gain?) fatigue -- meaning you should not be able to run all day without getting tired.

There is a good mod called "Realistic Fatigue" I think Skyrim should do something like that. For example, in addition to running causing your character to get tired, you get more tired running up hill. And you might trip if you get to tired. If an Oblivion mod could do that hopefully Skyrim can do something as good or better with a new engine.

And rename it.

A three split bar system would help I think, where the idea is to eat and sleep to keep the bars at maximum potential. As you grow in level, it becomes less and less tedious like everything else, but does increase the sense of roleplaying for surviving. But naturally with a whole system supporting it, not just fatigue. Fatigue will never be more than your current max health potential (health - critical wounds - illness induced damages - sleep deprivation effects). Permanent damage to fatigue will be lowered gradually between each time you eat, so that your maximum fatigue pool is lowered. Drinking potions (power drinks) can boost it to your current max potential, but wears off when the effect wears off - you cannot fully replace food with red bull, the effect is temporary.

For NPCs, I think *their* current fatigue should be shown as well as their health. Visual feedback would be great but unlikely, other than sounding heavily out of breath. Can't remember ever falling to the ground due loss of fatigue in MW, but I could be wrong. So not a nuisance enough to be considered a big problem and unbalanced. Sounds like a fun concept though. Maybe if we loose conciseness most NPCs "play fair", and animals not looking at us as a food source ignore us (threat dealt with)?

The three bar split would even work for mana, where the "permanent damage" is increased a certain percentage of the mana cost of the spell, but at level 50 this effect is gone. So as in MW, you have to sleep to restore mana fully, and the automatic regeneration will work less and less. Percentage might be based on speciality, intelligence, willpower, and level, so that magic users get an advantage over a fighter that picks up on magic.

Rate of fatigue loss could also be affected by your current encumbrance. So it would pay off to thread light and carry your stuff in a cart instead.



I disagree. How much pain it causes should be a factor of your experience and what kind of character you are. That's how everything in games work. But yes, keeping it well balanced is the trick.

Then you weren't aimed at the target- because if your sight/cursor/whatever was aimed at the target, you never missed because the combat system was FPS-style, on-target was on-target.

So maybe you missed, but your character never missed because fatigue didn't do squat to aim in combat so let's not pretend it did.

That seems to be the market these days and I am afraid that Oblivion's success will only serve to reinforce that current direction. When game mechanics get in the way of continuous action they are derided as 'Tedious' and any subsequent steam lining is justified in their eyes. Makes one wonder why these people play RPGs at all, especially with the plethora of FPS games available to them.

Indeed. Seems like it's only a matter of time before The Sims: Some Adventure Addon is more adventure based than a dedicated CRPG.

Let's stop kidding ourselves Morrowind and Oblivion had terrible fatigue systems. When you're exhausted but thrusting a sword into someone's gut it still goes through them, being fatigued just means it is very easy for them to step out of the way and push you over. That being said if Beth wanted to make a better system they would use a realistic system of fatigue. When you are tired you still function just slower and are more easy to overwhelm.

But I really doubt we'll see a martial arts system implemented where you can punch someone who's gasping for air in the lungs and have them double over.

I agree with the guy above me :rolleyes:

I was talking to this Pirate who had his own pirate ship. I noticed that there was a steering wheel coming out of the front of his pants, like a huge oak steering wheel. So I asked him "Hey, Pirate guy! What's the deal with that huge steering wheel on your crotch?" The pirate looked angry and he pointed at the wheel and do you know what he said?


"Argh. Somebody better fix fatigue or I swear to god...I'll use this"

AYE!!! bump

I'd prefer MW-style because having to 'walk' a lot of the time made you appreciate your surroundings more, whereas in Oblivion you'd just run past everything and not really pay any attention.

Just my two cents

The way it was in Morrowind was fine, Daggerfall made you sleep or you would pass out, these days that would be considered hardcoe...maybe make it optional. All I know is that I don't want it Oblivion style.

There should be two bars, one named fatigue and one named stamina. The fatigue bar would use a Daggerfall style system which requires sleep to refill, but drains very slowly and makes your character pass out if too low. The stamina bar would use an Oblivion or Morrowind style system, which refills quickly and directly affects your actions on the short term. I could see that working.

I'm willing to bet that your characters fatigue didn't have anything to do with it though.

Seriously........you can miss in Oblivion?

This would be awesome. They need to do it this way.

I missed all the time when I tried that spin like a sugarplum fairy move. Why the hell was that in the game?

It was in the game to please the people that didn't like the combat in Morrowind and to be honest I never used special moves.

I also think there should be two bars. One is called fatigue and should drain gradually when you don't sleep, don't eat. The other bar is called stamina and it drains when you fight and run. Fatigue won't restore until you sleep in a bed, while stamina restores quickly on it's own. When you run out of fatigue, you pass out or auto-sleep; when you run out of stamina you slow down and do less damage. There should be a way to let you override stamina limit and keep running or fighting effectively, but it'll Start to drain your fatigue quickly. This simulates combat high which makes you extra tired afterwards.

I'll go with the middle ground and pick Morrowind's system.