Add-on is definitely better than DLC.

Personally, I prefer:

SAO (pronounced Say-Oh) for Small Add On
LAO (pronounced Lay-Oh) for Large Add On
CAO (pronounced Kay-Oh) for Content Pack

If the main questline of the Add On takes more than X hours to complete, it is a LAO.
If the Add On adds no questlines it is a CAO.
Anything else is a SAO.

Actually the infamy reducer goes against that too. It certainly sounds like something they would've came up after the game was released and people complaining about not being able to change infamy.

Also following this logic, they also made the ending of Fallout 3 bad, just because so they can later release the better ending as a DLC...

I don't think we can. In fact I've never even heard anything negative about KotN before reading your post.

Read the OP. His title was a bit misleading as he was talking about the price to content ratio, not the quality of the add on itself.

I did.

No way man KOTN is awesome :stare: I'm all for improving DLCs and expansions but I think KOTN is a very good DLC

KotN was the return of lore to Oblivion.

It was also not about religion. It was about acting out the role of an ancient terminator to save Cyrodiil from its oldest foe. It just happened to involve altars and the word "crusader."

KotN was awesome.

This. A thousand times this.

Read the entire OP. Quoting a single line out of context proves nothing. His position is that for what they charged, it felt rushed and sloppy.

It is also important to read his additional post where he stated that in his country, the KoTN disc costs the same as the Shivering Isles expansion.

I :wub: KoTN.

No argument there.

I did read the entire OP before I even posted, it's really not that long and full of info. And I don't believe the quotation was out of context. He felt it was sloppy. Would it be okay for them to release a sloppy DLC if it was cheaper? Is that what he was getting at? That's where I disagree entirely. I don't feel it was sloppily done at all.

Like many, KOTN came in my GOTY purchase. But even if it didn't I would have paid their original asking price for it with no problems. Personally, I loved it and do the questline with every character I create - usually fairly early in their playthrough.

I mean, what's not to love? I think it has one of the sweetest suits of armor found in the game, one of the sweetest swords in the game and a cool mace. (As a mystic archer though, I do wish it had given me a sweet bow though. But for the added stuff, for me it's more about quality than quantity as I don't usually actually use the unique stuff anyway. But it sure looks great in my display room!

As for the quest, I play a pretty slow and methodical game so it adds several hours of fun to my game. I love rounding up my group of kniggits at the priory and going cross-country with them on foot heading for the final battle. I just let them fight the bad guys along the way and if we loose a few, well, I guess that is just the will of the eight plus one!

The dialog and voice acting is wonderful (just a little low on volume in spots) and overall I enjoy the story. The "vision" way above the game world is one of my favorite and most memorable moments in the game.

The way I see it, I've totally ripped Bethesda off to have been able to have so many hours of entertainment for such a tiny amount of money. I hope to keep ripping them off with Skyrim and maybe Fallout 4 too! Cheapest fun money can buy in my book, so bring on more, more more! I'll buy them!

I liked it, alot.

ok, ok, I admit the initial post is quite flawed.

However, let me ask this: would people enjoy something like KoTN being one of the heaviest DLC for Skyrim? I know I wouldn't.

Speak for yourself.

Yep. Kotn was when Cyrodiil got some semblance of it's soul returned to it. That was worth any price, IMO.

The best part of NOTN was - talking to the Preacher, trying different achievements to see if it finally worked. For example, if you had beaten the Mages Guild, you could state you were worthy because you were the guildmaster, and the Preacher would snark "oh, I'm sure you can magick yourself the information then, don't mind me." If had beaten the Dark Brotherhood, you could reply, "No, I Serve Sithis" (Sithis ftw), and the Preacher would actually accept - "The gods might find you an interesting plaything then."

And why was this part enjoyable? For once becoming the head of a faction was recognized, even if it was by one senile old preacher, lol.

Was the rest of NOTN enjoyable? Mediocure, and having to find all the wayshrines would marks on the map or waypoints is sooo tedious. I haven't replayed NOTN once, mainly because of that.

Now, Shivering Isles on the other hand, I replay with every new playthrough of Oblivion. What was so great about the Shivering Isles? Let me identify what I think they did right.

-Interesting Concept: Sheogorath was one of the most awesome and amusing Daedric Artifact quests, and Wabbajack is just briilliant. An entire expansion about this Madgod's realm? Color me curious.

-Personality: The Butler, Haskin, dry wit coupled with hundreds of interesting lines of dialogue. The split population of the isles, giving a rich variety of good characters. And of course, the man himself, Sheogorath. The main reward I think, for completing missions for him, was to get more hilarious dialogue. "You did it! CHEESE FOR EVERYONE! Wait, no no. No Cheese. That's just as much a celebration for people who don't like cheese!"
The characters of SI were colorful, and thus felt alive and interesting.

-Clash of Ideologies: Seeing 2 pure ideologies clash is always a pleasure - Good and Evil, Libertarian and Communist, Crunchy and Creamy, Ying Yang. In this case, it's Chaos versus Order, with Chaos modified in this case to also represent Madness. We don't open get to fight for Chaos in games, not in a main storyline anyway. Speaking for myself, with the national debt piling up and thousands of new laws each year, I could definitely get behind the cause of Chaos, as I've seen in real life how damaging Control can be run amock. Striking down Knights of Order by the hundreds was an exquisitite pleasure.

Yes.
But considering all the Fallout 3 DLCs were at least at KoTN quality, if not better, I don't think we'll need to be afraid of that happening.

Yeah, I think all of the DLC for Skyrim is going to be around the same as it was for FO3.

For dlc (it was not an expansion) it was quite a bit longer than most other dlc for other, non-bethesda games.

I enjoyed it a lot as it added several hours of content and lots of new role-playing opportunities.

Same here. Was an especially nice addition for my paladin/crusader type character.

For me KoTN is the best dlc, on par with Mehrunes' Razor. These dlcs are not quite what I prefer when it comes to additional content, they are short and the return on investment is not comparable to Tribunal, Bloodmoon or SI. But I guess if Bethesda made this decision it's not like I can convince them to return to consistent expansions. That's it, I will wait until the goty edition to play the tiny bits of dlcs.

I'm sad to hear Bethesda has plans to go with the DLC model for Skyrim. I agree with the people saying Morrowind expansions were the best. I enjoyed Shivering Isles more than the oblivion main quest.

If Bethesda priced expansions with at least the quality of SI and Bloodmoon and Tribunal, I'd gladly pay the same price for the main game and the expansion. You'd end up paying the same for all the DLC, and you'd end up with less. It's micro transactions that maximize profit per amount of resources devoted, because generally people buy what costs less even if its more of em.

The only reason that makes sense to do DLC is money, and unfortunately those desicions aren't always up to the people making the game, but their bosses counting the money.

Seriously people, I wouldn't buy any DLC right away if you own a PC version. You can bet that with the Creation engine, your faithful mod community will offer much better for free.