Errr, nobody is saying make the game 3D *Only*. We still haven't seen a 64-bit-only game yet! 3D only is probably a decade off at best.

Lots and lots of bad info flying around here. Maybe a little history lesson.... ArcaniA came out a bit ago and looked pretty horrible in 3D. One patch later, it looked great. Starcraft 2 did the same thing. Batman: AA actually put in special 3D-Vision aware software. Did anyone notice these games getting horribly buggy? Did anyone notice that this was done at all!? Making allowances for 3D doesn't cause bugginess. Given how small the audience has been, I really doubt the games that have gone to the effort of fixing up their games put a whole lot of effort in and they did it after the game had already gone out!

And now the audience is growing. Fast. Lots of folks are buying 3D TVs that are going to be mighty hungry for some content on those things. ATI is finally getting in on the game as is the PS3. If Bethesda wants to call it the 'height of the fad' then fine, it is still going to mean more money in their pockets for little effort.

P.S. And if the only 3D you've seen is in a movie theater, you've seen nothing. You can't compare a one-size-fits-everyone-in-a-huge-room solution to a PC where you can dink around with settings to fit your exact tastes.

My mistake.

I had experiance with 3D gaming. It's a fad and nothing more. It was a horrible experiance, dizziness, not really being able to enjoy the nice graphics. Too much on 3D and the gaming experiance was gone.

I have no trouble in real life so why would I want to poke my eye out? I know that people have no trouble in real life seeing things, but have trouble with 3D movies and stuff like that, that try to fool the brain that it's an illusion or in 3D. I just want to know who are you to tell people that they have to stay out of a post? Just because you don't have a headach from your 3D vision setup doesn't mean other people don't. You just look foolish in your ranting here. You like fine, that is great, alot of us don't like it. As the OP asked, reply to make Skyrim 3D. We are voicing our opnion in not having it. From our experinaces when a gimmick is used, it really detracts from the product. So we know what we are talking about.

Actually it remains to be seen if 3D will in fact be a standard in the gaming industry... or the movie and TV industry for that matter. From what I have seen, 3D just seems to be another way for the entertainment industry to sell people a new technology that they don't need, and that most people really could care less about. The truth is, most consumers seem to hate or at least not care for 3D... and that's especially true in the gaming industry.

So don't expect it to ever become anything close to a standard, and even if it does at some point, its not even close to a standard right now. That means that Skyrim probably will not be 3D comparable... along with the vast majority of games over at least the next couple years.

Pretty sure thats what he meant when saying "I appreciate it's not perfect for everyone".
(this post is going to be long one, sorry!!)

My stance would be that creating a great gaming experience in non-3d takes full priority, though keep in mind many games run nicely in stereoscopic-3d without any modifications by developers.

What I think most of the 3d-vision community (myself included) would be in favor of is merely for the designers in charge of such things as the HUD, map, inventory, and crosshair to render things with an extra axis. For example take the healthbar: normally they'd say "right, the bar is going to be rendered at X=20, Y= 10", which would place it at the bottom left corner. What we'd like them to take into account when designing it is that someone might be using 3d-vision so they'd say "Okay, X=20, Y=10, Z=-10". So instead of having a HUD element slapped right up against your eye, it's been defined as having a specific place on the screen's z-axis. Same thing applies when you call up the inventory screen.

Without such changes, the user must cripple the 3d-vision effects to make it tolerable to view. Age Of Conan is a prime example since they rendered the little floating damage messages over enemies with only the X & Y axis, which when viewed in 3d vision makes it so that the damage messages are not above the enemy and are floating upwards from a different section of the scene.

Were not talking about designing mindblowing cut-scenes and effects just for 3d-vision, just tweaks to the interface that makes it a pleasure to view in 3d.

-----------

I'd also argue that there seems to be some psychological opposition to the implementation of effects based on new tech as gamers HATE to think they're missing out on something in the game e.g. crysis & DX10, the subsequent "doesn't make a difference to the game" mentality adopted by XP users, then the joyous response when someone developed a hack for the game to enable DX10 in XP (but realistically only enabled slightly better textures I think?). (lets not even get into how Hellgate:London sacrificed gameplay for DX10 usage, thats exactly what I would NOT want bethesda to do).

Where 3d is getting a lot of negative press definitely has to be the cost issue as many people have rightly pointed out. Nobody wants to write-off their monitor/laptop/big LCD tv since its incompatible with 3d-vision. Lets be honest it feels like the electronics companies are just trying to place us into a perpetual cycle of upgrading and its only natural to fight it. I think a 3d-vision compatible monitor & 3d-vision kit combo retail roughly for ~€400 (nvidia glasses are a bit pricey at €125!). Not a fortune but still pricey for some and still viewable as a needless expense. The 120hz feature of 3d vision capable monitors and projectors is definitely worth the money for those of you who can notice the difference from 50-60 fps. 120hz @120fps is fantastically smooth. For those who game happily at ~30fps then you probably shouldn't pay attention to all the 3d marketing, you've (enviably) successfully trained your brain to ignore the technical issues and enjoy the gameplay.

I can definitely see the issue of FPS reductions when 3d-vision is enabled being an issue for many if they go the monitor route since they'd be inclined to play at 1920x1080@120hz. My advice would be to not be afraid of gaming at 1280x720@120hz-- think of it this way: each eye is receiving a 1280x720 pixels of a scene at a different angle, and your brain pretty much combines the two images into a single super-image of up to 2560x1440. So thinking your playing at an inferior resolution is a psychological block for many looking at 3d-vision. So what 'm trying to say is smooth gameplay @ 1280X720@120hz can be squeezed from a card that normally runs a game fine at 1920X1080@60hz due to the "lower" resolution, and without a loss of image quality.

Final thought concerns people who say they don't notice any "immersion" with 3d-vision after a while, and once you get over the fanboyism for the pop-out effects it essentially offers the same experience as standard 3d but without the financial costs. That seems to be how the human brain works when were gaming: we get used to something, become absorbed in the story and gameplay, and suddenly the special-fx become secondary to us. But without the 3d-effects the experience wouldn't be half as good--- I'ts all about the experience. Exact same logic could be applied to something like Chrono-trigger. After you get over it being in 2d, you find yourself focusing on the gameplay & story, and before you realise it the game has become awesome. But without that visual element I doubt the gaming experience would have been half as enjoyable or memorable (I still can't get that time travel effect for portals out of my head)

For me 3d-vision is all about having characters & environments come to life, and seeing facial expressions of NPCs in an entirely new light. Guns popping out or things flying at my face don't matter to me, what I love about 3d-vision is enhanced perspective you gain when interacting with NPCs and simply looking around a well decorated room. 3d vision = enhanced escapism/more believable worlds. An example I like to use is Wrex's face from Mass Effect. A 2d picture and he looks cool, when rendered in 3d he looks better, apply the textures he looks awesome, use 3d-vision and your in the same room as him. (sadly mass effect has crosshair and HUD issues)

Please don't shout at me!! :'(

---Please do yourselves a favor and at least try gaming on a 720p 120hz projector (roughly €500 on amazon). Its AWESOME!! Again price is is a factor, but you get ~4000 hours of gaming per bulb at €200 per bulb.--

I wouldn't mind 3d vision my computer supports it just need a 3d monitor and glasses it would be nice to play the elder scrolls in 3d through

3D is a gimmick,it ruins movies, games and anything it touches. the only thing 3D has ever been good for is amusemant park rides. Instead of worrying about what matters; plot, characters, gameplay, acting, etc. They focus on the 3D with crap popping out at you for no reason. Its as bad and blatant as in-game or in-movie advertisemants. 3D needs to go on ahead and die, like it did in every other decade since the 50s.

What game pops stuff out at you for no reason? 3D Vision is a couple of years old now, you know, and I haven't seen a game do it yet. When Batman added 3D support, they didn't do any of this. Games have to work well for everyone who's still in flatland and that's still the vast majority of players. If the designers try tossing in cheesy pop-out effects they are going to get slammed hard and they know it.

3D ruining things is just plain silly. Were games ruined by using polygons instead of sprites? Did we get great plots until that scourge known as anti-aliasing came along? Of course not! 3D is just another graphics advancement. It can be used wrongly (lense flair anyone?) but that doesn't mean it's evil. All we are hoping for is that they do their HDR in such a way that it works nicely with 3D drivers. Maybe add an option so that, when we draw an arrow, we look down the shaft with one eye instead of holding the bow right in front of our noses. We're not asking for the wolves to spit glitter at us or anything stupid like that.

Speak for yourself, I for one look forward to my glitter excreting companion next November.

"WHAT!!! is the color of night!?"
"Sanguine.."
*hand print on door spits out confetti into the eyes of 3d-vision users*
"Enterrrrrrr..."

I agree. 3D in games is usually just gimmicky, and in a game like TES, it would just be out of place.

I'd really much rather have the game engine support DirectX 11 and be optimized for many core processors like the intel Sandy Bridge architecture et al that will be releasing in the upcoming year, rather than a focus on what I personally believe is a gimmick, and a poor one at that. It detracts from the gameplay, instead of adding something, like DirectX 11, for example.

I was talking about things popping out in movies. If film hasn't benefited from 3D, why would gaming? 3D support would be the equivalent of saying that Skyrim will be Kinect compatible. which is to say that its unneeded and pointless. Wake me up once we've invented a Holodeck.

Yeah I would personally rather they focus all their energy on the current features they already have planned rather than one that would have to be added in after what... 80% of the development had already been done.

That would be bringing back too many memories of the whole developement process of Ultima IX. Electronic Arts was all "hey guys everyone else is doing their RPG in 3d now and yours are all iso-whatcha-metic or whatever. Make it 3D now"

and the Origin guys said
"But it's almost done... and it's isometric... it's mostly done"

to which EA said
"Nooooo 3d! Put in an extra D- it's just one more D!"

End result...
Richard Garriot referred to the final chapter in his beloved series as
"EA's bastard child"*


Yeah. No shoe-horing feature in to an engine they have not used before 70-80% of the way through the development process. That's how franchises get killed.

* He did actually refer to it as their bastard child in an interview where he was quite frank about how highly he respected their handling of the series he spent about 18 years creating.

I would say yes! Its not a waste of time. Its hardly any time at all. Nvidia provides the tools and most of it is done on the driver side of things. Bethesda would just need a few optimizations that wouldnt be much at all not even few days worth of work.
Nvidia would probably even pay for it if TESV is in the TWIMBP program.

Hey if they planned it as a feature then that's one thing- but you don't add features at this point. It always bites you in the butt to add features that only affect a fraction of the platform that itself represents a shrinking minority of your customers.

As most people here I disagree with the original post. 3D is not something that everyone wants, its not something that most people can support! 3D is mostly look upon with a black shadow when it comes to gamer's opinions; especially on these forums.

3D is a good Idea for someone who is rich and has little children. 3D is not that good for your average gamer that does not want to spend 200 dollars on a pair of heavy glasses and a 4000 dollar TV.


And don't even get me started on the headaches that everyone is experiencing that are caused by 3D!

A couple years ago I plopped down 1200 for my extreme HD monitor and it is already outdated *cry* I can not afford to upgrade again lol

But games are already in 3D...you mean we've been in 2D all this time? Technology from the last several decades has accomplished nothing? hmy:


Oh.. *that* 3D. It really should have another abbreviation so as not to be confused. :teehee:

Joking aside, no, I'd rather they focus on other aspects of the game. Rather they don't waste time on this gimmick that is already annoying the hell out of me in movies. Yes I called it a gimmick, do something about it. :meh:

I vote no. One because I can't see 3d [censored] because of an eye disability and they have enough on their plate to be dealing with 3d that isn't even supported by most computers yet

Sure you can. This isnt some long drawn out, even vaguely difficult requirement to meet. 3D vision as its built is a very simple easy to implement feature. That is done mostly on the driver side, being Nvidias driver. Its just optimizing your game so you dont have conflicts with that driver, which is very very little work and certainally wont introduce a host of issues. Your not adding anything significant to the render. Black Ops added it late in devolpment to a 3 year old engine without any problems.

They'll soon find out that 3D causes Glaucoma and a myriad of other diseases.

TES in 3D? Eh... I guess it doesn't sound awful, but it's pretty unnecessary.

I do not believe my eye setup is compatible with this system. I've got a factory defect.

I look foolish eh? I'm ranting about people voicing so-called "facts" about a tech they don't know anything about. I'm sorry 3d was a bad experience for you. Maybe your eyes have something wrong with them. That's not my fault so don't bash me for it. Did you demo it at a kiosk at some outlet or store? If so they NEVER set it up right. With stereo 3d you have control over depth and convergence, which everyone is a little different.

Dammit, having a 3d compatible game will NOT sacrifice ANYTHING for you normal players!
Quit leaving your candid remarks about how much it svcks when you don't have much experience.

And I want you to stay out of the post because all we wanted is for Bethesda to check and see if everything is rendered right. NOT for you and all your misinformed 3d flamers to come in and bash everything we are about. Also, the only reason I can come up with all the flame is that YOU DON'T HAVE 3D. Fine. It's really not that expensive. I'm not rich, I have 4 kids, pay rent, crappy job, etc. I had a good tax return last year and decided to take the plunge. 3d Vision was the BEST graphics upgrade I've ever had. And yes, it all comes down to BETTER GRAPHICS. Who doesn't love better graphics? You can add all the AA, AF , whatever effects you want. But nothing matches stereoscopic 3d. Ugh, you people make me want to pull my hair out! All I want is compatiblitiy... bar none.

Exactly and if they include it its a win win. Doesnt take a big budget or lots of time to implement. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT USE IT! No one will suffer from having 3d vision support no aspect of the game and if its there then that one segment will be able to TESV that much more! The arguments against them having 3d support are ridiculous!