I don't use it. Stealth Enhance, I mean. Sure, I did for a while, have it up to lvl III and everything, but I stopped using it.
I cloak a lot (I really like the Stealth Kills), but I now use Blind Spot most of the time. Why? Because nobody does and everybody is too reliant on the Radar thingee. It's crazy how often I have had people running right into me because the radar said I wasn't there.

Anyway, I'm against both options. In fact, I'm also against lowering the energy consumption for movement during stealth mode, ledge grabbing and sliding (btw, there is a module that already lowers that quite a lot). The tactical considerations of every suit module and their inherent energy consumption is one of this game's most essential features. Intelligent energy management is one of the things elevating C2 over the likes of COD, and adding more freedom to movement under stealth would in my opinion ultimately lower the level of gameplay. In addition, I also oppose the buffing of "counter stealth" modules, which would have the undesired effect of making Stealth Mode less of a threat than it should be.
In short, Stealth Mode should be deadly, but at a price.
If someone gets the drop on you, using Stealth smartly, you should die. Still, that same guy should not be able to just around the map cloaked all day unnoticed: So even with SEIII he's still victim to Maximum Radar, that footstep thing and Cloak Tracker. And if he messes up and doesn't kill you, he's got no energy left after the attack and is, essentially naked before your gun.
Enabling two Stealth Modules would unbalance the game mechanics. Lowering the Energy Consumption in Stealth would cheapen the Stealth experience.

I would also, respectfully, dispute the fact, that usage of SEIII is in any way a prerequisite for enjoying the game. Indeed, the very fact that people still enjoy the game before they get it up to lvl III should be evidence enough. And the fact that many people do use it, does not necessarily make it the only viable option. It is just a more obvious option. Since Stealth Mode is one of the major game mechanics, people can more readily discern the immediate advantage of modules like Stealth Enhance (or Armor Enhance, for that matter) than other, more obscure modules. Most people who come from the campaign to the MP will undoubtedly notice the major difference between Alcatraz and the common Nano Suit dude is the amount of energy available, especially during Stealth mode. So when they see a module that is available early and promises them something more akin to the single-player energy resources during stealth, they don't look any further. And once they get used to it, they rely on it too much to be able to compensate for its lack when trying another module.

90% of people might use Stealth Enhance, but not because they enjoy the game more in cloak; they just don't know how else to enjoy it.

If I was asked for a solution, I would make Stealth Enhance unlocked only at, say, level 20 (and lower the upgrade requirements accordingly). At the same time, I would open up the more obscure Stealth Modules a lot earlier, forcing people to walk the road less traveled by, and that would make all the difference. Everybody can see at a glance how he would benefit from Stealth Enhance, but with some of the other modules, only time and experience will truly unveil the gems hidden beneath their muddy surface.

In closing, I honestly pity everyone that never used anything other than SE long enough to see why it might be worth to try something else. Sure, some of those modules are maybe less obvious in their benefits, and some of these benefits might even be fully negated by the often horrendous lag in MP games, but as with every weapon in our arsenal it takes practice to become perfect and, thus, productive.
Except, of course for the modules that even a monkey could use effectively, for they only enhance abilities you already posses.

Open your minds, people.

Thank you for the post, great read. So good in fact, that I can't really bash it lol

Only part I disagree with is this "Indeed, the very fact that people still enjoy the game before they get it up to lvl III should be evidence enough.

I personally don't enjoy the game until I get it, it's a chore and I am elated once I get it. Also we have found that many people have not enjoyed Crysis 2 MP. The records show that the number of people that have played C2 since release have fallen dramatically from a top 6 position in Xbox Live leaderboards to not even in the Top 20. We can't say how much this can be due to frustration with the mechanics but I have watched many video's on youtube where people have complained about the overuse of stealth and the frequency of recharging. The latter being attributable by the unawareness of SE III. People want to use Cloak to move about and SE III is the only way to do this.

It's a never ending circle - The SE users force other non-SE users to use SE to compete. When an SE user is running around like a chicken with it's head cut off with a Feline then it's hard to play a more slower paced game with SE because they will be on you like a tramp on chips.

I like your suggestions I will add them as another option to be available. I am also going to try this class as well;

Nano Recharge II
Blind Spot or Covert Ops
[Any Power Module here]

I think this will give a better balance between stealth play as I can recharge extremely fast with Nano Recharge II and still have a variety of stealth modules to use.

Great Idea with making Stealth Enhance requiring a level 20 prerequisite. I still wonder if though that even when a person has experimented with different modules whether they will still move back into SE because it is by far the best, which is why now I think reducing the effective of SE would be better alternative all round.

I also agree with not buffing the anti-cloak modules, I think cloak is easy to see as it is making them more powerful would make cloak useless.

Thanks for actually reading my points and argung intelligently and politely, I'm so glad that I don't have to repeat myself a 50th time.

Just because everybody uses it, doesn't mean it's the best. That's not evidence. Neither is it conclusive or deductively sound logic. Usage does not equal Quality. It's the easiest of the Stealth Modules, the most convenient and most apparently advantageous. All of which are not synonymous with "best".

It's like saying frozen orange juice is best, simply because it is the most commonly consumed.
It's like saying COD has the best MP because it has the most people playing it.
It's like saying the guy with the most XP is consequently the best player.

If, at any time, the decision process is skewed by a lack of knowledge, choice or ability, the common axiom of "usage equals quality" not only becomes wrong, but inherently misleading.

Ok I agree that appealing to popularity is not evidence however in this case the fact that most people use it doesn't prove it's quality but that most people consider it of a higher quality than other's.

SE III is the best module by far and I will give you reasons;

1) You move so fast people can't track them easily on radar - Giving you a mini-Blind Spot
2) footsteps are silent in cloak (as per Zee said but I don't think this is the case)and more cloak means that you won't get shot from Ceth Gunship - mini-Covert Ops
3) More cloak = footsteps cannot be tracked with Tracker
4) You recharge less = less time in corner waiting around doing nothing which is annoying and also less time spent vulnerable sitting there and/or exposed to enemy radar
5) More cloak = faster movement from one area to another without being noticed
6) More cloak = less deaths = more kills = more killstreaks = less deaths + more kills = higher KD and better score

The advantages of SE III are HUGE. That's why we need to implement the other options we've been discussing. I think Zee was right that we have all seen the other stealth modules by now and seen they are redundant compared to SE III.

SE III is the best module by far and I will give you reasons;

1) You move so far people can't track them easily on radar - Giving you a mini-Blind Spot
2) there footsteps are silent (as per Zee said but I don't think this is the case)and more cloak means that you won't get shot from Ceth Gunship - mini-Covert Ops
3) More cloak = footsteps cannot be tracked with Tracker
4) You recharge less = less time in corner waiting around doing nothing which is annoying and also less time spent vulnerable sitting there and/or exposed to enemy radar
5) More cloak = faster movement from one area to another without being noticed
6) More cloak = less deaths = more kills = more killstreaks = less deaths + more kills = higher KD and better score

The advantages of cloak are HUGE. That's why we need to implement the other options we've been discussing. I think Zee was right that we have all seen the other stealth modules by now and seen they are redundant compared to SE III.

Pretty much yeah, once I used all the modules I knew which ones would work best for me, and my friends did too, ironically all of us had similar ideas and opinions on the modules. We all used Nano Recharge/Energy Transfer, Stealth Enhance, and Retriever/Weapon Pro

Why should I run around with Air Stomp, Visor Enhance, and Side Pack? Not saying they are terrible, but I mean theres far better stuff to pick from.

I really see no problem with the way it is now. Maybe because stealth is the mode I use least. I use stealth tracker.

When I use stealth I feel like I'm made of glass and like anyone could kill me easily. Thats why I like that everybody tries to use stealth as a main strategy. They are so easy to spot and kill. They are so fragile. It is like they are made of glass. They only need a couple of bullets.

I don't see how SE or stealth forces anyone to use stealth more.

Maybe its because I use proximity alarm. That module is the best there is. Its the perfect counter to anyone trying to use stealth as a main strategy.

Just a note though, Cloak doesnt protect you from the Ceph Gunship at all, its the same as being in Power mode

I've never been shot by Gunship while in stealth never. I can stand right underneath it with cloak and it won't attack me until I come out of cloak. I've tested this in over 2000+ games.

Ive been killed by one many times when cloaked but that was in the demo, did they change anything?

I can't remember that far back to the demo. All I know now is that cloak = protection from Ceth. If I get a random energy drain or get shot then the Ceth instantly attacks me once I'm out of cloak.

If thats true thats really dumb, nerfs Covert Ops even more now

Thank you, Kaz. Admittedly, it also takes me forever to write one of those things...

I believe that many people found Crysis 2 MP less... accessible than other, more straight forward MP experiences like COD of BFBC2. While those games let even fresh players be somewhat competitive from the get-go, due to the Nano suit Crysis 2 is a bit more challenging. It takes quite some time to get a grasp of how and when to use your Nano Suit abilities, or just of the simple fact that not all abilities are available all the time.
I couldn't count the times I got killed because I was standing underneath a ledge and couldn't jump up because my suit had to recharge first, or the times my jump drained my last bit of energy and instead of unleashing an annihilating air stomp on several unwitting sheep I just landed right in the middle of a group of enemies surrounding a crash site. Or just getting used to uncloaking before I shoot at an enemy, so I won't be facing some guy in Armor Mode with all my energy gone.
The fact that the SP Campaign provides a comparatively huge amount of energy, even with the New Recruits option the complexity and tactical requirements of Crysis 2 MP can be a bit daunting, intimidating even. It requires you to do just a bit of thinking before you move, and can be quite punishing if you don't.
The Nano Suit giveth and it taketh away.
And I think a lot of people were just not used to that amount of consideration, getting frustrated quickly because they did not yet know how to effectively utilize the same abilities that got them frustrated in the first place. Every halfwit with decent reflexes can be good if not great in COD, but in Crysis 2 the thoughtful player will more often than not triumph over the quick and careless one.

Now, add that additional layer of challenge and complexity to the underwhelming online performance, the bugs, glitches and terribly laggy games... well, there you lose your people.

Anyway, I'm straying. I still maintain that people enjoy the game before SEIII. I do. I enjoy it more with Blind Spot now than I ever did with SE. I just believe that people get too used to the increased amount of energy at their disposal, and once they try something else they feel hampered, gimped... I know I felt (and died) that way when I stopped using Armor Enhance (which at lvl II lets you move quite fast even in armor). I also disagree with Stealth equals Kills or Killstreaks (and, on a side note, I think that Retriever is the only module really able to ruin the game, since it so blatantly counteracts the dog-tag-collection anti-camping policy Crysis 2 was trying to establish). I don't think anything but bullets and fists equal kills. How you most likely get to the kill will differ for everyone, but once again I think this is where Occam's Razor came in and shaved a lot of alternatives right off the table. I am convinced that if everyone took the time (and loss of pride for dying a lot at first) to get to know the ins and outs of the other stealth modules, they would soon forget that they ever thought they needed something like SEIII. I mean, it only enhances Stealth. You can do that already. Not using SE just forces you to be a little less gung-ho in your usage, a little more considerate before you run into open ground.
I just don't think you should use Stealth just because you can, as soon as you can, as long as you can. Use it for a reason. You'll find that you won't depend on the cloak as much, and ultimately become a better player.
Unless, of course you want to be one of the guys with Energy Transfer III, SE III, Mobility Enhance III and a shotgun, who just run around cloaked the whole game, killing people on the periphery of the Crash Site, getting 20 kills with no objective points while their team loses every match. Those guys are about as low as the L-Tag spammers or Retriever Snipers.

For alternative modules, Nano Recharge or Energy Transfer give you less grief about recharging, Blind Spot, Covert Ops and Jammer add more passively offensive Stealth options (Jammer even adds the psychological "He's close. But where?" to the mix), and for quicker movement Mobility Enhance will reduce your energy consumption quite dramatically. Cloak Tracker would be great, if it wasn't so tedious to level up (I think only Busted count), and I don't know, the footstep thing just feels like cheating to me . Visor Enhance might also be nice, but of all the things in the game, Nano Vision is the one I never ever use in MP. Maybe if it was easier to turn on and off, but with the D-Pad and the high energy consumption... If anything should be buffed at all, it would be that, but personally I'd rather see it gone, and make lvl III Visor Enhance tag enemies much quicker. If I had to choose between longer Stealth and Blind Spot, I'd go with Blind Spot and Mobility Enhance. Every time. Maybe Armor Enhance for Objective based game modes.

Still, with those setups I constantly run out of ammo after the fourth kill or so, which is really annoying once you get your Nano Suit 2.0 with only 10 bullets left in your AY69.


I honestly believe that any combination of modules can, in the right hands, be just as deadly as the most obvious ones. It's just a bich to get to that point...

I will answer your post P4NCH properly tomorrow as I'm going to bed now.

Also what I will be doing is consolidating everyone's ideas and the options thought out and will edit my OP and create a better poll voting system on this thread. Hopefully because enough people have spoken on this thread and the size of it then perhaps they will take notice since they've said that they actively relay information back to the developers.

I am quite happy that you finally got Kazakage what I was trying to say about the balance of things. I was kind of raging because I just come from a really bad game(where the best player was using you know what.) I hope the poll shows the light of the true game situation and changes are made.

[quote="stabnk86"]
This is probably the only thing needed to be done to fix the SE III module, but I have finally noticed the ridiculous aim assist recently. It does need lowered.[/quote]

Yea I knew you would catch on to the aim assist eventually. It's a step down recognizing it when you were used to pc gaming as you said were. The hit detection is still a major cultprit behind this whole imbalance of the modules now though. This hit detection guarantees that if your in a firefight that your shield will be drained to low levels or completely from just a 1 on 1 confrontation.

This aim assist along with the 2-d plane of bullets IS going to hit a target no matter what. It doesn't matter how well you can aim because simple spraying does the job almost as effectively. You may win 1 battle but your completely vulnerable afterwards. Now this whole hit registration is telling player that being confrontation is going to result in a quick death from just the smallest skirmishes, what other options does that leave the player? Avoid direct confrontation then attack an opponent when he's weak or when his back is turned aka, the current state of this game. This whole situation will be avoided if decisive aiming played a more significant role in the multiplayer.

Kazekage, I completely disgree with adding the stealth enhance module as default. It's currently unbalanced as it is. The majority imbalances of modules are due to the dull hit detection system because THIS GAME DOES NOT REWARD PRECISION AIMING ENOUGH. Here's a quote from one of my older threads, which touches this subject.

I'm going to constantly bring up reasons why the hit detection is major reason for most of the multiplayer's shortcomings as off right now. As I stated in all the prior post in this thread, Crytek's decision to incorporate the current 2-d ADS has had a negative domino effect on the multiplayer. As stated in the post above, the current aim assist eliminates the player's ability to control their up&down aspects of input on their reticule stick on their controller. Not only does this current aim system makes locking on a target a guarantee, it basically gives a player aiming down sites a 10 year warranty with bonus gifts along of the target's death. The reason I say this because the bullets constantly travel past the target if the player wasn't aware enough to actually hit the target with the abudant aim assist. So not only is the target in danger but all the general area where the target currently standing at.

Ok, so now this aiming system is basically stating, "Just move the stick to the left or right and we'll do the rest." What's a player to do to try and stay alive? The aiming system is so undemanding that armor basically has no kind of consistent value and will become depleted instantly due to the aim assist. What does that leave a player to use? I'm sure everyone whose reading guessed the answer to the question easily, CLOAK. If a opponent can't see me, he won't be able to autolock on me but I can autolock on the other player easily. Simple right. Now see how hit detection is slowly unbalancing the modules. This hit detection favors I see your first you die gameplay(**cough Call of Duty cough**), add the ability to cloak and you have the current unbalanced experience we have now. A majority of players pour all their experience into the cloaking modules due to the quick death hit detection.

I don't think it's wrong for a player to play the sneaker beaver role with the cloak. It's part of the game and should be optional if a player wants to excel in that type of playing. However, it should not be forced down a player throat to be able to perform consistently well in playing mutliplayer. Each assets of the suit should have it's plus and negative. Cloak's positives outweigh it's negatives and armors negatives currently outweighs it's positives and it's all due to the hit detection. I didn't buy this game to play ghostbusters, constantly looking around every nook and cranny for someone whose invisible. There is more than one way to adapt to a situation and the 2nd demo's hit detection allowed that. I'm going to keep stating this quote until I brainwash everybody.

GIVE PLAYERS THE 2ND DEMO'S HIT REGISTRATION AND A MASS MAJORITY OF THE BALANCING ISSUES WILL BE CROSSED OFF THE LIST.

Kazekage, I completely disgree with adding the stealth enhance module as default. It's currently unbalanced as it is. The majority imbalances of modules are due to the dull hit detection system because THIS GAME DOES NOT REWARD PRECISION AIMING ENOUGH. Here's a quote from one of my older threads, which touches this subject.

I'm going to constantly bring up reasons why the hit detection is major reason for most of the multiplayer's shortcomings as off right now. As I stated in all the prior post in this thread, Crytek's decision to incorporate the current 2-d ADS has had a negative domino effect on the multiplayer. As stated in the post above, the current aim assist eliminates the player's ability to control their up&down aspects of input on their reticule stick on their controller. Not only does this current aim system makes locking on a target a guarantee, it basically gives a player aiming down sites a 10 year warranty with bonus gifts along of the target's death. The reason I say this because the bullets constantly travel past the target if the player wasn't aware enough to actually hit the target with the abudant aim assist. So not only is the target in danger but all the general area where the target currently standing at.

Ok, so now this aiming system is basically stating, "Just move the stick to the left or right and we'll do the rest." What's a player to do to try and stay alive? The aiming system is so undemanding that armor basically has no kind of consistent value and will become depleted instantly due to the aim assist. What does that leave a player to use? I'm sure everyone whose reading guessed the answer to the question easily, CLOAK. If a opponent can't see me, he won't be able to autolock on me but I can autolock on the other player easily. Simple right. Now see how hit detection is slowly unbalancing the modules. This hit detection favors I see your first you die gameplay(**cough Call of Duty cough**), add the ability to cloak and you have the current unbalanced experience we have now. A majority of players pour all their experience into the cloaking modules due to the quick death hit detection.

I don't think it's wrong for a player to play the sneaker beaver role with the cloak. It's part of the game and should be optional if a player wants to excel in that type of playing. However, it should not be forced down a player throat to be able to perform consistently well in playing mutliplayer. Each assets of the suit should have it's plus and negative. Cloak's positives outweigh it's negatives and armors negatives currently outweighs it's positives and it's all due to the hit detection. I didn't buy this game to play ghostbusters, constantly looking around every nook and cranny for someone whose invisible. There is more than one way to adapt to a situation and the 2nd demo's hit detection allowed that. I'm going to keep stating this quote until I brainwash everybody.

GIVE PLAYERS THE 2ND DEMO'S HIT REGISTRATION AND A MASS MAJORITY OF THE BALANCING ISSUES WILL BE CROSSED OFF THE LIST.

I fail to understand how aim assist and hit registration has anything to do my thread i.e. wanting more variety of stealth modules by implementing one of the four options I have recently proposed.

I have more problem with the lobby system and the fact that 90% of people feel they have to use SE III and cannot use any other stealth module because it's too powerful, convenient and unbalanced and thus I want to come up with some ideas to remedy that.

Please make a new thread about aim assist and hit detection, if you see it as a problem, which I don't. I don't want this thread to become off-topic.

Hey. I have now updated my OP with the new options and explained the "situation" better.

Does anyone think that I should allow people to vote 2 options rather than one? I was thinking that some people might think option 1 and 2 together would be a good idea.

Yeah, Cloak makes one very fragile and easy to kill, but the first spotting over distance is hard.

What I just thought of Cloak beeing awefull in the game (and probably that's why people quit the game) is that people keep popping up in front of you, shooting 1 or 2 times and youre dead, the enemey recloaking. At least that's my view on that game, it happens often enough to rage me. I already made a thread for a balancing option, but it was deleted... I don't know why, I guess because I used footage of the very old Alpha Version of the game in 2010. It was so balanced... No excessive Cloaking (although SEIII was already implemented), just pure skill needed, not to be the first to see the enemy.

Health should be raised in Power and Armor, and shooting out of Cloak shouldn't be as forgiving, well, rewarding as it is now. I saw a vid on YT, where a guy made 25/0 in an IA match, and his playstyle made me rage watching the video. He was permanently shooting out of cloak and recloaks after the kill, that shouldn't be possible. The game should punish stupidness, but it's not, you can shoot out of cloak with no problem.

And Kazekage, why do you think players are forced to use SE (although they aren't really)? That happens when the game is inbalanced, it's like commando in Modern Warfare 2: overused and unfair ****! That game is inbalanced as hell, and Crysis 2 appearently is, too. Adding SEIII as default wouldn't fix that, neither would 2 Stealth Modules. The anti Cloak measures and the Armor based Modules should be buffed and then we have the balance.

Every playstyle, whether it's Armor, Cloak, Power or a combination of them, should be a valuable option to play like, not only one single option (like it is now with cloak).

When I should give a concrete suggestion: Make Nanovision and Visor Enhance ment mark the cloaked enemies REALLY! Not only with a slight color.

Hey. I have now updated my OP with the new options and explained the "situation" better.

Does anyone think that I should allow people to vote 2 options rather than one? I was thinking that some people might think option 1 and 2 together would be a good idea.

There is still no option to vote to keep it as it is. I will not be voting.

Hey. I have now updated my OP with the new options and explained the "situation" better.

Does anyone think that I should allow people to vote 2 options rather than one? I was thinking that some people might think option 1 and 2 together would be a good idea.

There is still no option to vote to keep it as it is. I will not be voting.

I have explained why I haven't included "Keep it as it is" in my OP.

If you want this option then open up your own thread.

You don't believe in offering choices other than those of your own designs, huh?

Good luck with being like that, in life.

Man, this thread is a n00bs paradise.

Why hasn't this convoluted nonsense been locked yet?

I guess the "moderation" here consider pathetic threads a better alternative to no threads at all...

I've reported this thread.

All you've contributed to this thread is spam, troll and ignorance. I've spent my time answering your posts many times over and you still have to keep coming back.

This is not "nonsense".. we have over a 100 posts on this thread and we've made a lot of progress and as a result I have added another 2 options I've heard from posters to the original 2. Most people have contributed very well, while a few as usual troll. Trolling is to be expected on all forums, but it goes on enough in other threads and I don't want it in mine

When people haven't trolled I have answered them intelligently and they have also back i.e. P4NCH, EmpReb, JustNameless... when you and E3NEMY troll I cannot be bothered.

If you don't like this thread THEN LEAVE!! Nothing is forcing you to be here. Also I won't be replying to any response you give. If it another hate/spam/troll post that lacks any type of thought relating to my thread then I will report that too. I won't keep feeding the troll.

You don't believe in offering choices other than those of your own designs, huh?

Good luck with being like that, in life.

Not all my designs. Two are from me, two are from other members.

I have answered why I haven't included "Do Nothing" in my OP. If you can come up with a reason why doing nothing is better than any of those four options then I will add them. I'm not an unreasonable person, provide a REASON and I will change my thread.

"Over one hundred posts"; and yet the poll itself consists of a meagre 3 votes. Oh forgive me - originally there was more - but you 'deleted' them.

I'm glad you have reported this stupidity.

You know, if you had just left the poll as it was (fair and rounded) there might have been something worthwhile to discuss here. Instead you have just made yourself look like an arrogant fool.

Don't think you can out-wit me, chump. You're out of your depth.

Obviously he's right. When you don't offer options, no one will vote. I didn't so I don't see the result, but I think there's almos none voting.

Just add a "Keep it" option, then you'll see what the 90% wants. On this way, You WILL only get troll posts.

And lol, reporting him? No comment.

EDIT: Chose the first option, this is less a monster change in the game. And I laughed hard. 3 People (except me) voted here.

Just add it, you won't die from it.

"Over one hundred posts"; and yet the poll itself consists of a meagre 3 votes. Oh forgive me - originally there was more - but you 'deleted' them.

I'm glad you have reported this stupidity.

You know, if you had just left the poll as it was (fair and rounded) there might have been something worthwhile to discuss here. Instead you have just made yourself look like an arrogant fool.

Don't think you can out-wit me, chump. You're out of your depth.

3 meagre votes in the space of about an hour, If I hadn't of changed my voting twice we would easily have had 10 in each of the original 2 options. They disappear once I change the voting options, I have no choice in this.

AGAIN, don't bother posting unless you have a REASON that you would like to DO NOTHING as an option. Since you spend some much time writing back to me then why don't you just provide the REASON and then I will add the DO NOTHING option.