As mean as this sounds, your argument is exactly the same as people who think that games shouldn't have rising requirements because they can't afford anything above a low-end card. The absolute minority should not dictate the experience of the overwhelming majority. I know *homeless* people with internet access over here.

Of course we have budget constraints. But I get my monthly internet for less than the price of a night on the town, and that's a fast connection I'm paying for. I don't know where you're from, but in Britain we can get a cheapo internet connection for tuppence ha'penny and a poke of chips.

As for PC skills, it really doesn't take any to run the likes of Steam. If you know how to install a game, it does it all for you.

The best thing about the PC platform is its options and freedom. Have it released on Steam, Impulse, GamersGate, Retail with CD key etc. Having it tied down to one service will lose Bethesda money. The only problem is that patches will have to be sent to every one of those services, though considering how much money Bethesda will make they can hire a guy to do that.

The main reason I don't like being forced to use Steam besides those mentioned already is what happens in a few years - when some other better form of DRM comes out and makes Steam obsolete or the company running Steam decides to take the profits and close up shop or they become unprofitable and go bankrupt ? (don't think it could happen to STEAM --- I'm sure Blockbuster thought the same way a few years ago prior to when NetFlix came along !) All of a sudden all of those games that require you to verify through them and your entire library of games suddenly disappear and the money you spent building a collection of games vanishes (look at the verification servers of Bethesda's own DLC purchases that have already vanished and the hassle you have to go through to get a copy of the DLC you paid for and then consider having to do the same for every game you've purchased - fortunately Beth is providing a download for those affected but if\when Steam disappears who's to say if all game developers will do the same - I'd much rather have a physical copy of the game that doesn't require a third party server to be reachable in order to play my game.

It would only take a second for one of their game developers to upload it to the Steam site or wherever.

Steam have already confirmed that, were they to go under, they'd allow you to download a permanent, DRM-free copy of your game so that you no longer need Steam at all, in any way, to play it. Or summ'it like that.

I've heard that said many times, and even said myself once or twice, but where exactly is this officialy stated?

And of course you believe them ! -- the fact is they are under no obligation to do that and can not legally be forced to (and if sold the purchaser of their assets could not be required to provide such service) and seeing that doing so would cost several million dollars of bandwidth and other resources to remove the DRM and the fact that they could not do so without the permission of every manufacturer tends to make me sceptical at best of such happening ! ( figure if you were a game company and had paid to release a game with the DRM present would you allow them to release a DRM free version of your game if they closed down thus making it freely available to anyone without any DRM at all ??)

Doesn't matter whether you believe them or not. If they do, you can play all your steam games free and legally. If they don't, there are plenty of cracks around even now - and while I'm not entirely sure of the legal ramifications of bypassing security that is no longer functional, from a moral standpoint I doubt many have issues.

And I could get hit by a bus crossing the road, yet it's a risk I take on a regular basis. Steam don't look like going down any time, so it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. If they do, just run Steam in offline mode. It's already easy to backup your Steam games onto a hard copy. Simples.


Maybe it's written into the contract? I imagine the developer would be inclined to release their own patch anyway.

That's pretty much where I stand on the issue too.

Steam's library is very handy and they have fantastic sales. That's really all they do that I care about, most of the other features people talk about as advantages are things I don't want. There's also the fact that I won't pay full price, especially on Steam which is alway more expensive than retail here, for any game that requires Steam as I don't like the idea that they can deny me access to my games if they choose. So instead of paying €30 - €40 for Skyrim, I'll be waiting til I can find it for <= €10 if it requires Steam. Hell, I still haven't played New Vegas yet because of this.

Edit:
It's not really the same. Rising hardware requirements are a result of things needed for the game to run. Required internet access for a single player game isn't the same thing at all.

Also, just because internet access is easy to get in some areas doesn't meant that it's inconcievable for other people to not have it when they have a computer that can run the game. There are plenty of places where the lack of decent internet is a result of there being no decent infrastructure in place for it, rather than someone being unable to afford it. I wish people would stop throwing around numbers like 90+% for people with internet access just because most people they know have it.

How come so many people like the idea of FORCING Steam on people who can't/don't want to use it?

I am not talking about 'homeless' people or saying the minority should dictate.
I am making a valid statement. There are 1000's of teenagers and other people who save to uprade their pc's and buy the games [not that there are that many anymore that they can buy, because of online req.] and don't resort to pirate games to enjoy gaming.
I cannot believe in the economic climate of the last 18 months [not to mention the up-coming year] that most people will not be making drastic cuts to their expenditure.
Whoopie that you can have the internet access in Britain, but you are not the rest of the planet
I live on an acre, with a stream running through my property, I have a 600m2 square 'french plantation' style home and find the internet a luxury.
That is not exactly a low-end card. That is the kind of thing I am saying in terms of 'picking' your luxuries.
Don't tell me that all gamers in the USA or Britain or anywhere else don't have 'budget constraints'
I refuse to believe that the majority are able to connect with out recourse to internet cafes, libraries or their work place.
That is just not realistic.

We don't. We just think Steam is the lesser of many evils. I'd rather have no DRM at all, but face it, that's not going to happen.

I do now, have internet access, but at a price.
But, believe me you need pc skills when for some reason steams 'link' won't activate because it has a conflict with W7. Ask me, I still can't get a Steam account
3 and a half months down the line.

... and around and around we go. You just don't get it. I don't care if Steam ***** Tiffany cuff links, I don't want it forced on me. That simple. You may think it is great, I don't. Some people like scat, and I am sure they think it is great as well.

:/

I installed Steam on W7 without a problem. What errors or problems are you getting?


It's not being forced on you. Don't like it? Don't buy the game.

Of course...

... around and around.

I don't know a single person who knows a person who plays games on PC and doesn't have an internet connection - and I'm including many people from other countries where internet is more of a luxury than not.
Hard figures are very difficult to come by, as most testing is done online - so anecdotally is all I can do.
You are the minority, and while there's very little a digital distribution system can do to help you, you do only need the one activation, and in these days where even mobile phones can act as a cost effective access point, 3g connections are available in the most remote areas, and there are satellites orbiting the planet delivering it to where there's no 3g line, a single connection to the internet is not a difficult thing.
While I agree that yes, a verification method that doesn't require any internet access at all would be better, I also think that no DRM at all is much better to both. Unfortunately, the latter is unlikely and the former is just about worthless as a security system.

Steam as a DRM at least has some advantages - it is no more forced upon you than any other form of DRM, it's just more obvious. Even if you can't see the advantages, relative to other online-verification DRM there are no /dis/advantages.

I really don't see what your problem is. What about DirectX being forced on you? Or anything else required to run the game? Or do you just not like Steam on principal?

Direct X actually relates directly to the game being capable of running though doesn't it?

Steam isn't required at all.

I have a grudge against steam for many reasons;
-Forced to use the account I made on the Half Life 2 release day.
-I had a large amount of trouble getting said game to work on my new computer since I needed to log into my old and forgotten account or I would be forced to torrent the game I was holding in my hands.
-Cant change my name so my friends find me easy.
-Friends cannot add me to play Alien Swarm because they didn't buy a game (or Alien Swarm should have counted therefor its got a bug in the system).
-Takes ages to start up.
-I never have liked advertisemants, especially when they throw black ops in you're face every time I would normally just double click my desktop icon and that would be it.

But I do use it and I probably will be buying Skyrim for PC but it would make my day if it didn't require steam.

Let me ask you some questions.

1. Have you even bothered to try Steam, or are you just going off of the common misconception that it's crap just because a small majority says it is? If not, I'd suggest you at least give it a try, as I used to think the same thing.

2. If you have tried Steam before, then what do you hate about it so much that cannot be fixed, disabled, etc?

3. You do know that know matter what DRM you choose, you're having SOMETHING forced on you, right? I mean wouldn't you rather have the game tell you this instead of it basically installing and running like malware?

What about binding the retail disk itself to a non transferable steam account? There other online verification DRMs that do not do this.

What happened was that when Steam sent the 'link' to activate the account, it wasn't a 'link'. Tried everything. By some miracle my zero pc skills got me somewhere that gave a really complicated solution that was ancient Greek to me, but.. there was something from a Japanese user who said that it was a W7 email problem and he had solved it by activating through a gmail acc. Got that, tried to get Steam to send the acc. activation link to me, still waiting.