If you dont like DRM then dont buy the games that use it until these companies learn.
Ive allways bought my games, and lots of them, but these days I never buy a game if I discover in advance it uses a DRM.
Ive been caught out a couple of times buying from Amazon when they dont warn you, so I return a negative comment and warning.
The lastest game I got caught out with is the new Mount and Blade, I still havnt managed to get it working.

Ive pre-ordered Skyrim with Amazon, but will cancel if I learnit uses this crap, maybe in the future when it becomes a budget game by "SOLD OUT" it will be free of DRM, anybody know if that is the case?

Not a fan of that either, being forced to activate a retail game online to play it is not something I'm fond of.

I don't really have anything against Steam as a digital store, I've taken advantage of sales and what not. I am, however, no fan of Steamworks (or any of the other online activation DRMs). If I buy a single player game in a retail store, I shouldn't be forced to go online to activate it to play it.

Oblivion is available on Steam, great for those who want to buy it there. And the retail release doesn't require any kind of online activation to be played, just like how it should be.

That's not true. OBSE, FOSE, NVSE, they all work on the Steam versions of the games.

It is possible to tell Steam not to automatically update. Having said that (and bear in mind that this is coming from a rabid Steam fan ), I agree that it is far from ideal for dialup users.

My mistake I was thinking of D2D and Impulse

Personally I'm quite partial to Steam, but there's definitely something special about Morrowind and Oblivion not having any DRM - just being able to climb over to your computer on a quiet winter morning and fire them up without any distractions or background processes is quite nice. Plus, the steamapps\common directory is kind of annoying for modders.

EDIT: OH MY GOD ROHUGH EVERYBODY RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.

Where do people come up with the idea that you have to stay logged into Steam to play? My internet goes out constantly and I've never once lost progress or been locked out of my Steam games.

Catfoot, there is a difference between not liking Steam and having a reasonably discussion about it, and being obnoxious and alienating people who don't share your opinion.

I have no issue with games being available via the Steam store but I don't want my games being forced to use steam when I'm using a retail version.

Please no Steamworks.

I hope it uses steamworks, I can only see benefits and no negatives for that.

1. not everyone has broadband connection

2. Steramworks still has a limited userbase.

3 steam can cause issues ("game not available at this time")

4. Steam forcing the initial patching to the current version

This.

I don't use the Steam store anyway.

Steam deactivated my brother's account. They sent no word or explanation to his email address. Steam has no phone number for customer support, only email tickets. He got no response via the help support tickets. He tracked down Valve's phone number - but an automated machine told him the number was defunct. What kind of company tries to hide from its customer base like that? Today, his account was re-opened - again, no reason given.

This incident has really increased my dislike of Steam, especially as DRM. I'm very unhappy that my Darksiders game needs to launch through Steam.


I also don't understand the price benefit (to consumers) of purchasing games via Steam. Supposedly, games should cost less there due to the lack of needing supposedly expensive retail material (boxes, printed manuals, discs). And yet, games are priced the same as a retail version. What gives?

Personally, I've never been happy with Steam. I downloaded some game demos to play, and later decided to get rid of them. Well, instead of actually uninstalling the demo files like it said it did, I saw those files still sitting around eating up space in the Steam folder directory.

Is there really any evidence that games using Steam DRM are pirated less than games using other DRM schemes?

Not true, actually. When my account was hacked I called them and had it sorted out. (Well, I guess it was Valve's number, but I asked them to delete my account and it worked, and then I asked them to reopen it with new info and they did)

Right, I am allowing this thread to continue ... for now. But any more 'obnoxious' flamebaiting and us moderators shall be forced to act accordingly.


Thanks,

Milt

Ah. Well, obviously I've overestimated my brother's capability to track down phone numbers.

I may be the only one, but I liked it how fallout 3 used GFWL. You could play the game without GFWL enabled. I didn't even enter the "LIVE access key" until Operation Anchorage came out. Even still all I had to do was download the dlc and move it to the fallout folder anyways.

It should be noted that I am an Xbox LIVE gold member, and I play Xbox a lot so it was a bonus for me that my account and microsoft points all transferred over. Plus the pc achievements were put on my Xbox gamertag so most of my friends see them. I am not to fond of steam achievements because I don't have any friends on steam.(Only one with a good computer) Another plus for GFWL was I could plug in a mic and chat with my friends on Xbox. I only have one game on steam, Fallout: New Vegas. What I did for that is turn on my Xbox, join a party switch audio and video to my pc and chat through xbox live. That method is annoying because you can't tell if you get dropped from the party or not, and you can't see who joins or leaves. The GFWL integration also told me who was on and who wasn't just like on Xbox live. I guess I have Raptr, but that stops working while I am playing games for some reason.

To sum up my thoughts on the matter, Steam isn't a plague that people should avoid. I just wasn't pleased about it being forced on everyone who wanted to play NV on pc. GFWL suits me better than steam because I am an Xbox player too, and if it's done the same way as Fallout 3 nobody really has to deal with it if they don't want to. I doubt it, but hopefully we will have options instead of just a steam version.

1. You don't need a broadband connection.

2. What do you mean by a limited userbase? It passed the 30 million user mark back in October.

3. Perhaps, but that rarely occurs and only when there is a huge sale going on.

4. You would want to play a game without zero day patches? Usually those are required for stability and worst bugs in the game.

Then you are one of the lucky ones not too have a tremendous head-ache without that monster of a software :pinch:


@ OP

I hate DRM as much as the next gamer, I extend my recognition of it being one of the most useless pieces of 'protection', but I know that Beth are definitely going to follow DRM just because it's become the new marketing norm, however, you have to realize that Steam is much less invasive and much less of an annoyance and hassle than other DRM like GFWL. While I would prefer no DRM to be used (though I doubt that will happen) I would advocate Steam being used over any of the other stupid software out there.

doesnt mean hes not correct dont be a jerk just because you got your facts wrong

:huh: Who was asking about additional features Steam comes with?


Most any program you uninstall leaves a few files behind like save game files, etc. Once uninstalled, it should be okay for you to delete those folders yourself.

For me, if it's only online for activation, I'm fine with that.

So someone likes something you dislike, therefore they are an obnoxious really devoted fan? Steam works fine, I've never had a problem with it, and I even buy a lot of games on it. It's convenient, and I have heard horror stories about other DRM solutions that screw you over more than steam.

And steam doesn't require constant internet, offline mode works indefinitely if I'm not mistaken, after you have activated your game once. I'm guessing you have internet since you are on here, at least limited access.


But of course you aren't going to listen to me. No matter what I say you will be all "Another Steam really devoted fan raging on me. Hurr Durr."
I do agree that DRM, so far, is useless, since those pirates still find a way around it. But I like having my handy steam account that I can always log into and easily download all my games from any computer. So sue me.

Huzzah! Us console users have finally got the advantage! Muahahaha. :whisper: "mods" Oh yeah, :sadvaultboy:

This is slightly off topic, but if you register a retail game to your steam account can you then download it from steam if you ever lose your copy? That would make it completely worth it for me. I know that's how the do it with WoW. You can download the game + all expansions you have tied to your Battle.net account.

Yep. You can download it onto any computer you want to.

I like steam. I play everything on it (Oblivion Morrowind Fallout NV Mass Effect Mass Effect 2) and I like it fine.

But automatic patching has to go. That ruined my Fallout NV game 2 or 3 times

You know if Valve wants, they can hide Steam application. But then they will be accused as behaving like malicious software. Ignoring a tiny icon in tray mustn't be too hard.

I only buy games digital now. So games moving to steamworks have no difference from thousands of other games available in Steam for me. In any case, it means less 3rd-party DRMs.