Steam is nice to have. Once you activate the game, there is no need for the disc or anything.

But even if you have the physical game in your hand, sometimes you are unable to install/download it. For instance, people that had gone to the New Vegas midnight launch on the east coast could not install the game until us on the Pacific got our copies. That's just wrong.

So... I guess I'm just not seeing the downside to this at all?

• One time activation
  
• You can play offline for the rest of eternity after that
  
• If you lose your copy, or forgot it on a trip you can download it to ANY computer from ANYWHERE with a internet connection.
  
• And steam offers great deals on games anyway

You can turn off auto-patching.

Correct. I've been using Steam for ~1.5 years and I love it and haven't seen any downside too it.

Well then, once I've built my gaming rig I do believe I shall become a steam enthusiast :celebration:

Exactly, now tell me... ain't this great? Or do you guys prefer Games for Windows Live? Or do you love SecuROM?

Heck, with Games for Windows Live I can't even download the DLCs because it does not support my country, and with SecuROM I would have to buy on, I don't know, Bethesda's website which is more complicated then simply buying it on Steam.

THIS! Ive been using steam for 4 years+

I like how the OP says Steam supporters are obnoxious, and then proceeds to make up baseless lies about Steam.

Pro-tip: Learn some facts before you criticize something. :thumbsup:

Edit: Satisfied user of Steam for nearly two years now.

I wish I could like Steamworks but based on my personal experience & what I've read it's not a system I want to be reliant on. while it can make things easier for one segment of the customer-base it can also make things worse for other legit customers.

I just wish we could have a system that accommodated everyone that's willing to pay for the game instead of a system that's driving potential customers away,

As long as I can get the retail version(a physical disc) and it works, then I'm ok with it. It's just really annoying when these things cause problems- especially with things in your computer NOT associated with the game itself. One of the reasons why I hate piracy and theft in general.

Peace, +Petrose

My exact situation and sentiments.


Steam has gotten me three times with the [censored] and I will never again buy another steam game. Third time's the charm.

These threads always end up the same, because the "pro-Steam" crowd (for lack of a better term) cannot seem to comprehend one simple concept: that folks aren't complaining about Steam per see, but about the fact that a 3rd party is forced upon them to be able to play a game, and said 3rd party takes away from the control the paying customer has over his/her computer, what gets installed on his/her computer, how software gets installed on his/her computer, and how the paying customer plays the game.

Every time someone complains about Steam, the same list posted by Silvade pops up, and the reality is, none of those things enhance the gameplay.
I mean, seriously?
Automatic patching? NOT a good idea. (I may be biased here because I am a unix engineer, but still)
An internet browser? I already got one.
In-game chat? In-game chat? Seriously?
Achievements? "OH! OH! I killed 20 geckos? YIPEEEEE!!!!!. Everyone must know!!!"... please.
Easy DLC distribution? It's 2011. Any idiot can download a file off the internet. No need for a 3rd party process.
In-game guide? I haven't read a game guide since 1996.

On the other hand, here is a 3rd party entity which prohibits me from installing the game where I want to install it and how I want to install it, that needs to be running on the background, otherwise I cannot play the game; that continually reminds me I put it on "offline mode"; that changes stuff in my files, etc etc etc...

Again, it is very simple. FO1, FO2, Morrowind, Oblivion, FO3, didn't require any 3rd party process/software/entity to run. We simply want the same option in future Bethesda releases. Telling us how cool Steam is, is not going to change anything, because we don't want the "services" or "goodies" it provides.

I couldn't use the Ram Booster. I have 12 Gigabytes of Ram. Whereas I could only use 2 GigaBytes it was annoying. Script Editor Disables GFWL but Steam has an error code always when I use the FO3 Ram Booster in NV.

As stated before, you can turn off auto patching and achievments. And are you honestly complaining about In-game chat and browser? That has nothing to do with games purchased off of Steam. It's a perk to use if you're into the social networking feature. Say I don't understand, but all of your points that we don't "get" have already been explained and cleared. It's an inconvenience, maybe, for less than a minute.

Why SystemShock would like steam only games? just because you don't mind it doesn't mean anyone else won't mind the uselessness of itself. This is only pro steam argument ever made to people who don't like it. People don't like it because they at least see it as unnecessary and a waste of time. Because it is. No one needs steam. Ever.

You don't seem to be arguing that it isn't a pointless waste of time and convenience. What does it do that I need? It doesn't do anything I even want.

Steam does not make your games better.

No one who buys second hand supports steam. No one who supports second hand market supports steam. activating installs to a steam account and it being non transferable is crap. Actually nothing steam does makes up for that.

Just accept the facts instead of calling him a loyal fan. he is just not biased like you.

i have 8 Gb of Ram and i never filled more than 40% of it doing a single thing.

I wasn't making an argument for steam use because there were quiete a few made before my post, and on other threads. I was merely stating that Cammona Tong's logic was flawed and his reasons were as well.

I still can not compute why someone would whine and complain so much because of a simple software? It's not even a proper DRM, like Spore's or Ubisoft's. It's so simple, so easy, it doesn't take anything from you and instead it gives you more than you already have.

Why would someone for instance, not buy a game just because it has this simple activation mechanism? Explain this to me? Explain how it would ruin your experience, how it will make your gaming and enjoyment worst? How it would screw with your computer?

So SystemShock, you are complaining because it adds more features, I know it's not always necessary, but why complain? Would you be angry if it was your birthday and someone brought you the gift that you wanted, but turns out it's even more stuff, even more good stuff? Please answer my questions, then I stop posting on this thread.

It's just this that I don't understand, why would you complain when it gives you more?

Changing stuff in your files? It alters any of your standard computer's configurations or personal files, etc? Not allowing you to install it where you want it? Or how you want it? Explain this, because, I can install it wherever I want, whenever I want and however I want.
Okay I understand that it needs to be running on the background but... would it cripple your performance having one more process, a very little one?
And your point about DLC, unless you mean... pirate the DLC. There is no other good way, unless you like Games for Windows Live, because that is a piece of crap.

So basically, you're saying the game should force Steam on us by listing features that are already rendered redundant by better programs and have nothing to do with gameplay itself.
I see that post consisted mostly out of questions.



I would be a little bit miffed if my friend bought me stuff I already have better versions of, and I only have a limited supply of gifts I can get at any given time.

Here's a question, why do you assume that your opinion about Steam and how it's all you ever wanted and "even more good stuff", applies to everyone else, especially for those people who don't like redundant programs wasting their time and their hard drive space on their computer? And even if you say "IT DOESN'T WASTE THAT MUCH TIME OR THAT MUCH HARD DRIVE SPACE", it's a pointless program for a game like Skyrim and I don't want to have it at all.



Here's a quick example: I personally find the "feature" of achievements as mentioned before to be completely pointless and nothing more than a distraction for a TES game. Counter it and explain why.

It only takes one problem to tip an otherwise "non-intrusive, but very pointless" program into the zone of not worth it. I really dislike automatic updates, very much so. I would have never been able do decorate my house in Oblivion without the duplication arrow glitch that was patched in later versions. If a program like Steam were to, in any way, interfere with my files and my game, it is completely invalidated for getting.

Also, when you download a program online, would you rather download just the program you want, or would you rather download multiple "limited feature" versions of programs you already have with it?

P.S.: What I have noticed is that quite a few posts in favor say things like "WELL IT'S BETTER THAN GAMES FOR WINDOWS LIVE". Well, the thing is, I DON'T WANT ANY OF THESE PROGRAMS AT ALL. Why try to make it seem like a choice between a pointless program and a piece of crap program, as though there is no option for neither.

How about instead of asking us why we shouldn't install Steam, answer me this: Why should we? Give me a few reasons that better programs don't obsolete.

Couldn't you just take a little extra energy to drive down to the local gamestop and purchase it there..?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software)#Steamworks
Basically if you buy a physical copy of the game, you still have to activate it through Steam.

Complaining now is because of the forced situation. (edit: well, a possible situation)


No one minds there being a steam software.
No one minds that some people find it's features useful in some way.

There is a difference to the store and network features found there, to the forced steamworks activation of a whats probably going to come out as a single player rpg, and come out on a DVD disk at retail.

What people do mind is that steam is not optional.

People shouldn't have to like something because it is the least crap of similar things. People shouldn't like something because it is the lesser of 2 evils. People shouldn't be forced to use it let alone like it.

There are other means of automatic patching for games. I've seen games include their own automatic patching function, I fail to see why games can't just use this if they don't use Steam. And even without such a thing, patching the game manually is generally not that hard, I know how to download files online on my own, I really don't need a program to do it automatically for me.

For the other things, I honestly don't care, I just want to play the game, I don't need other features I'll never use. And why should I have to suffer through all the drawbacks of using Steam if I don't want it's features? And you know, it's possible to just give players the OPTION to use Steam, you can get a Steam version of Oblivion, but those who buy boxed copies of the game don't need to use Steam. If players had the option to get the game through Steam, but it was not forced on those who buy the game in stores instead, then the whole problem wouldn't exist, and those who want Steam's features could still use them. But giving customers options is stupid, I guess. Really, so you like Steam, fair enough, as long as you realize that not everyone agrees with you, I don't care, but you don't need to keep trying to convince those of us who feel differently to agree with you, and if you feel you must, you should at least provide a good reason for why Steam should be MANDATORY, which is what this topic is about. No one is going to complain about having the OPTION to play the game through Steam as long as there's a choice to do otherwise. And yet not once have I seen a defense of Steam present any sort of benefit for having no choice but to use Steam, or not play the game (Or play on consoles, I guess, but we're talking about the PC version here.) probably because there is none. Whatever benefits you can think of for using Steam can easily still be enjoyed by those who choose to use Steam if there was also a choice not to.

Really, posts like this just come off as saying "Steam has lots of great features! Like it! Like it! You must like it!" which sounds like adoring fan behavior if I've ever seen any. You have to consider that there could be those who know what features Steam has, but don't want them, or don't care about them.



Or maybe it's the people defending Steam who are biased.

Or maybe, I know this is a hard thing to imagine, but maybe both sides are biased, to an extent.



And there's the problem with Steam, because it adds things that are NOT good things. Sure, it does have some convenient features, well, it has one feature that would actually make things more convenient for me, but automatic patching is honestly the only Steam feature that I feel greatly benefits me. The rest are just pointless features I don't care about, and that's not that much of a problem in itself, after all, my cell phone has features I don't want to use either, but as long as I can ignore them and just use it as a phone, their presence doesn't hurt it for me, but when those extra features come at the expense of something I don't want to deal with, then it becomes a problem, and I DON'T want to deal with Steam. I do NOT want to have to install and use third party software that is not necessary for the engine to run properly to play my game (I don't mind if the game requires installing new drivers to work, because that's a technical necessity, but there's no excuse for the game to force me to install other third party software that it could easily avoid using if it had just been programmed to do so.) I do NOT want to need to register my game on line just to play it, I do NOT want to need the developer's permission to play a game I paid for and installed, and I certainly should not need an active internet connection to play a SINGLE PLAYER GAME.

I don't mind Steam being an option, but it should not be mandatory, there can be a Steam version of the game for all I care, but if I buy a physical copy of the game, I should not be forced to use Steam. This way, those who like the features of Steam can still use them, but those of us who don't want to use Steam don't have to. This way, Bethesda can please more players, which you'd think is something a developer would want to do.

Really? I don't remember activating anything when I bought oblivion..