I like using Steam to buy older games and to get some games for cheap, but I think Steam shouldn't be required for newer games. That's just plain annoying

Because Oblivion does not use Steamworks.

Oblivion and Fallout 3 are sold on Steam, but they don't have Steamworks functionality. Store bought copies have Securom DRM AFAIK, and have nothing to do with Steam. New Vegas however is Steamworks enabled, storebought copies are just camourflaged backup discs, and require Steam to be present in the system to use them (if it's not, it will install it first).

I like Steam for it's game library function, i can delete and download games whenever and how many times i want, the rest of it's functions are useless to me. So i'm all for not making Skyrim a Steamworks game, despite liking Steam

You fellas are making my day. It's better than watching Stortinget at work.
Above is one of my biggest gripes and I won't repeat them all, since we had this before. And I don't like to get in the middle of this. It's indeed more a thing of principle.
I think it's comparable to the solution to tax fraud. Should the administration raise more taxes on those that do pay like the good citizens they are or is the solution to make sure people's and companies' paperwork get inspected and the fraudsters caught?
Similarly, you can say, should piracy be resolved by annoying the good honest gamers or tracking down those that abuse the system?

sure why not

I was first introduced to Steam when Half Life 2 came out. I hated it. It was required to play HL2 at all, and I was on dialup, with no way to get broadband. I ended up bringing my computer to work just so I could hook it up to broadband, let it download the hundreds of megs of updates, and finally play.

After I managed to move out of my parents and get a broadband connection of my own, I finally warmed up to it.

Today, I own over 50 purchased Steam titles, and when I reinstall my machine, the first thing I do is get Steam going. I like how Steam manages my collection for me and keeps everything up to date without me having to check each game for the latest patches. I also like the way Steam lets me maintain a friends list to allow me to coordinate, join, and create multiplayer games with ease.

Checking Task Manager, Steam is currently using a bit over 12 megs of ram, which in this age of 4-8 GB of ram in a mid-range system, is the tiniest drop in a huge bucket, and not considered a performance drain at all.

I do kind of miss all my games being lined up neatly on a shelf, like my living room is my own personal Gamestop, but Steam has sold me otherwise, and I guarantee I will be purchasing Skyrim on Steam, day one.

Trying to stop piracy by tracking down the distributors would be hilarious waste of time and money (as the recent Arrrrr! trial has shown, founders went to jail, site is still operational). As is using DRM, not quite as hilarious, but still. Stardock for example often releases new content for legitimate users that most companies would sell as $10 DLC, not using any DRM but still they aren't bankrupt yet. Despite Elemental :hehe:

Edit: very funny, autocensor <_<

I think a lot of people are somehow overlooking the "Only" in this threads title.

It's not, "Please Do Not Make This Game a Steamworks Game"
It is, "Please Do Not Make This Game a Steamworks ONLY Game"

PLEASE steam svcks it doesnt let me register

It's such a waste that they've become so desperate that they're imposing a particular pogram (that does send info, is a bit of an annoyance and just no improvement in any way) of a specific company on honest gamers who can even provide a unique licence key.
By the way, I'm sorry to say, my good man, but you don't make a point by "forgetting" about the principle I was referring to and only citing the last line. I know I've been willingly brief, but that's because of some of the universal counterarguments called "ignorance" here (plus, we had this before too many times). I think they've proven in this age of cyberattacks and Wikileaks (and actually catching people behind them, getting the site and its financial resources offline) across the globe proves it can be done, I think it's rather a problem of a lack of willpower, don't you think?
It'd be so silly if a pc nerd could beat the cybercapacity of a govt. Even my country invests ridiculously much in electronic warfare. :blink:

I was only adressing the point of going after pirates. I don't know, but seriously doubt if piracy can ever be stopped, but it seems like a better idea for me for publishers to spend money on their customers rather than the pirates.

Personally, I find swapping the DVD every time I was to play a different game a much bigger pain in the backside than running via a small program that I already have in the background anyway.

Either all PC version use steam, or non do...

Im pretty sure a require of steam is that if a gamemaker wants ot use it then they cant also provide other releases that dont use it....cause have you seen any steam released game that is also avaible without steam (minus releases of old games on steam, they dont count).

Exactly. I prefer Steam to disc checks so I can switch between games without swapping discs.

But, if they don't use Steamworks, a simple disc check isn't horrible.

These. I really don't see why most people would be complaining if this stuff is included. It makes life so much easier for the PC gamer.

And now I will attempt to address some other issues people bring up (some may have already been addressed, but I'll state my word anyway).

I DON'T WANT A PROGRAM WASTING MY PRECIOUS RESOURCES AND LESSENING MY GAME PERFORMANCE!!!



BUT I DON'T LIKE THE AUTO-PATCHING!!!



THE SOCIAL FEATURES ARE SO LAME. I MEAN COME ON, CHAT AND STUFF? THAT'S FOR CONSOLE PLAYERS!!!





All this and you don't have to put the disc in the drive (which lessens system noise) and you can put it on ANY COMPUTER that has Steam installed on it as much as you want. And a plethora of other features? What's not to love.

As for those of you who hate Steam just because others do/say you should hate it, why not give it a try and see for yourself. I will admit, I was very skeptical of trying it myself, but after I did, I've been so pleased with it as it's made my life much easier as a PC gamer.

If anyone has any other concerns they'd like me to address, just say something and I'll post.

I think the issue is still that people don't like things being forced on them. If it were optional it would be different.

How many programs are you okay with HAVING to install in order to run the games you want?
(assuming they don't actually serve a purpose making them necessary to run the game)

To put it simply, Steam is the "console" of the PC gaming market. It's growing into a nice industry standard. I like it. It's easy to use, provides you with AWESOME deals, and is not the least bit invasive. I think it's a good thing that it was created by a gaming company in the first place, an organization that knows the ideal DRM it wants for its own games without shoving it off to a third party company that doesn't understand DRM from a functional approach, only a profit approach.

For Developers, Steamworks makes it very easy to push updates to the public, rather than assuming they themselves know where to find it the day it happens. If you are so concerned about your internet connection, will you EVER get an update, Steam or not? For the most part, updates are very good, if not necessary. The only reason I could think not to update is to take advantage of some sort of exploit, like the duplication glitch Oblivion had before it was updated. But if you're playing Elder Scrolls on PC, where the game is freely moddable, do you *really* care about duplication glitches when you could just add a chest with every item ever?

For the User, Steam provides a very clean, very open integration between the game, the network, and it performs beautifully. To compare it to anything, I'd say that it works the same as Xbox Live. You have an ID, whether it be gamertag or handle. You have a purchase history. You have achievements. You have a marketplace. You have a library. You can play games without need for a disk. Digital distribution is the new standard because it's better for everyone with an internet connection. To me, the argument not to use Steam, or digital distribution at all for that matter, is similar to using a VCR to watch movies in the modern day.

I use Steam. Does that make me biased? Possibly. But I and millions of other PC gamers use it too. That being the case, it must at least be *good*, because I don't see anyone going crazy over Games for Windows Live or Direct2Drive for their stellar service. When you authenticate with Steam, is it really any different than authenticating with SecuRom? I remember once that I bought Mass Effect digitally from EA. It had SecuRom, which required online activation and installation of EA's own programs. About a year later, my computer broke and I had to get a new one. I tried to get Mass Effect again, but there was no record of my purchase; no other way to get it without the activation code that was only visible from the installation itself. About that same time I had also purchased Fallout 3 from Steam. 3 computers later, I still have it and I can still download it freely because Steam gives you free access to everything you purchase. Fortunately for my Mass Effect concerns, I was able to buy the first and second games for 10 bucks total on Steam. Which was awesome.

I know it's not fun when you are forced into things. And I'm not going to ramble about how Steam is the only viable option when it comes to DRM (Actually, I think Battle.net is opening itself up to third party developers in the future, but Activision is still the evil scum of the Earth for reasons I won't get into here) but I see Steam as progress. And sometimes progress needs to be shoved down people's throats. I just wish Microsoft would do that to Internet Explorer 6 already... But as people on some less-than-courteous forums I visit would say: Whatever. Bethesda doesn't need your money anyways.

The answer, in most cases these days, is one. Even if it's not being installed clear as day as Steam is, most DRM requires SOMETHING to be present on your computer at all times. And honestly, I'd rather have a game telling me it's going to install something extra than install it behind my back like some sort of malware would (which is what most DRMs seem to be like these days).

True we could go back to the old ways and not have DRM at all (thus not installing anything extra), but most companies are trying to do as much as they can to make sure their games aren't pirated as easily. I mean, yes, DRM still doesn't stop the pirates, but as stated, companies will try anything.

My actual choice for DRM would be to have none at all, but since we can all assume that's not going to be the case, then Steamworks would be my next choice.

Once again, many of you are saying to force steam on other people. The thread OP never said it shouldn't be on steam, he said it shouldn't be Steamworks Only. Of course, there's always folks who ignore the content of the original post to instantly rush to the defense of their ideals that they want to cram down the throats of others.

I honestly don't understand, why do you want to force everyone else to conform to your beliefs? The OP doesn't care if it's on Steam, he just wants to be able to buy a Steam-Free Retail version, as do I, and then you all run straight to the Steam-Advertising and bashing of the OP.

EDIT: Probably should have worded this better, makes me seem more pissed off then I really am. :whistling:

Yes, but as i said just afew posts up. You either have steam on all copies...or you have it on none. Im pretty sure thats part of the agreement they have with Valve.

I imagine it's because he deliberately insults and calls out everyone who uses Steam. He points out faults which aren't true, so we tell him why they aren't. Perhaps if he didn't start out so flamey, there wouldn't be "advertising" of Steam and such.

Either way, OP went about the subject the wrong way, which of course will cause others to lash back at him. It's simple human nature.

The Autocratic Steam Fans want to force everyone to use Steam! [/snark]

It's not as simple as you're making it.

Some people want Steam but don't want to buy and download the game off of Steam. Also, some Steam features must be built into the game.

WIN
Whatever your meaning on the OP is, it's a fact that it always comes to this whenever DRM is discussed. I've noted one of the first pro-steam posters always uses the word "ignorance". I'm not kidding. Just a remark.

Why don't people like Steam? Sure I like to have the real box but as long as it releases in stores as well (which it will) all should be fine, right?

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