First, that map that was linked? You get that only after exploring most of Vvardenfell. Otherwise, it's a giant patch of tan and black that lacks even place names. You have to physically ask NPCs about place names for those places to get put on your map without travelling there.

Second, you can only switch your map from "world view" and "local view". And unless you're afflicted with one of the worst forms of OCD ever (or habitually use the "tfow" console command,) most of the local view will be black until you physically walk accross most of it. Only Morrowind with the Code Patch features can you zoom.

Hmmmm. I must have been playing a different game then. I distinctly remember being able to see enough detail on the map, to be able to pick which trail I needed to follow to get to where I was going.......

They aren't going to change the whole direction of 4 just because a few people don't like it.

Does it have the place names listed by default in faux-handwriting, too? Probably oblivion, where the trails and city locations were pretty clear and labelled, and 99% of the time, the quests showed the fort/dungeon on the map if you didn't want to follow the quest compass. It even had a zoom function!

You must have missed my "tongue in cheek" tags. No, it was indeed Morrowind. I had no problems navigating via the map, and directions. Yes, I did take a wrong turn more than once, and had to backtrack, but then, I do that in real life too. (no, I don't have a GPS)

Great post, agreed with everything said. Your posts are very thoughtful. This isn't the first post of yours that I've agreed with lol.

The Morrowind map only became helpful the more you explored. If, right out of the gate at Seyda Neen, you were told to go to one of those Daedric Shrines in the middle of the Grazelands between the Ashlander Camp and Tel Vos, would that map have been helpful?

Most likely not.

I've accepted it now, but it took me awhile. Skyrim was the game that beat it into my head. I thought maybe oblivion would be the extent of it.

Depends on how good the directions were, and did they take into account that you haven't explored much of the map. I have been given directions to places I have never been before. Frequently. Sometimes the directions are good, and I don't even need to consult a map. Other times, the directions are somewhat less that stellar, and I end up having to consult the map, or maybe even *gasp* ask directions..... (and yes, I am male, it isn't against my religion to ask directions. )

re: Morrowind.... perhaps you're thinking of the http://www.imaginaryatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/MORROWIND-MAP.jpg that came with it, which was quite detailed....

I got the GOTY edition, but, I think I was too late/unlucky, that I never had a paper map. If I did, it would still be tacked up on the wall.

I'm glad people don't think like you do or we wouldn't have the hatian revolution, the American revolution; the recent gay marriage referendum, the black civil rights movement, the women's civil rights movement and the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons to name a few.Whining and complaining in unison can be surprisingly effective.

I played the game for the first time when I like 12. I had no issues with the map or directions, except for a few quests, and it was the quest that was at fault, not the map. I didn't need a quest marker. In fact, the games I grew up on, didn't even have those.

Going back, and playing some of the older games, they are harder. I played the remastered version of Resident Evil. It was a hard game back then. It's significantly harder now, same with Castlevania SOTN, and Legends of the Dragoon, both of which I played recently. But going back and playing these games, has made me appreciate what is lacking today. No rose-colored glasses or nostalgia, getting my hands dirty in some of the classics today.

It's interesting what is happening now. Either people will continue to want more of the same, or they will want something more. The market has grown dramatically since even 10 years ago. Who doesn't play games now. As this huge swath of people become accustomed to gaming, they may want something with a little bit more to offer. Who wants to play the same game over again, and watch the same cutscenes? It will be some time, but I think we might be seeing a new trend. Pillars of Eternity was a major success, we can only wait and see what the future will offer.

Ah yes... And the Eloi were just such an evolution.
(And like it or not, it's happening. )

Could one abate anathematizing my perspicacious elucidations?

Congrats on comparing gaming, a trivial thing, with stuff that means infinitely more. That's always a sign that a thread is going places.

(of course, on the internet, everything is http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeriousBusiness, no matter how meaningless)

And not all changes are bad ones either, you should try remembering that.

Another thing to remember: anything that can't (or won't) change, dies. Fallout is no different. Want the same experience over and over and over and over? Keep playing 1, 2, and tactics, never broadening your horizons. Never accepting and and enjoying the game for what it is now, and not what it used to be.

You can still be critical of Beth and Fallout, hell, I have done it on numerous occasions. Through all my criticisms of Beth's games, I have still managed to accept and enjoy their games for what they are. I'm certainly not happy with some of the changes, but the alternative could be far far worse than it is now.

Revolutions seldom if ever start with a majority.

Some insight on the Morrowind map: My first game in the series was Oblivion which as we know had a quest marker. Going back after having the quest marker as my first experience proved to be no issue. I found my way around the island just fine by just directions from the quest giver 80 percent of the time.

If BGS were to make a game without a quest marker today, which of course wouldn't happen but even so, I have no doubt that millions of people would buy the game and it would win GOTYs regardless.

I'm starting to believe that gamesas just has this reputation for greatness and they could make anything work. More "in depth" mechanics don't make the game unwanted or less valuable. Rather, Morrowind , Oblivion, Skyrim are wanted for different reasons.

The subject matter is on opposing ends of the spectrum, but there's a general truth to be gleaned, that dissenting voices are eventually heard.

I like to see this whole mess as a parable to the Brotherhood of Steel in-universe.

What, is Bethesda unjustly taxing you without representation or something? Suppressing your freedom of expression?

In many ways the series is being falsely represented and censored into something more palatable.

...get used to the idea that games devolve!

Now it's right - come on only giving us so few dialogue choices and removing skills is really dumbing down the game (I don't know why developers don't learn from the mistakes other studios make, Mass Effect did the same and fans aren't happy about it!)

greetings LAX

Dragon Age 2 comes to mind. I'm trying to keep an open mind here yet I find myself slightly worried I want fall in love with FO4.

I will say that if the transition from FO3 ---> FO4 is similar to ME1--->ME2 , then I'll be happy because both games were phenomenal even though you could certainly say ME2 "devolved".

I agree with this 100%, especially your third point. I dunno, I played Fallout 1 and 2, and I have to say that I like Fallout 3 better than anything Interplay did.