Funny. When I put on General Chase's snazzy coat from Zeta, I still look like I'm wearing combat armor. :\

And you know what else? I've still had more gamebreaking quest bugs in FO3 than I did in NV. Including a time when Dr. Li and her troupe of scientists refused to move another inch after the Garza dialog, no matter what I did. Twice, in two separate playthroughs. Then there's the time when James refused to get out of the VR pod. The time when I didn't get my stuff back (including my pristine suit of T-51b!!!) after Anchorage, the time when my game crashed because there were too many plasma goo piles onscreen at once... To say nothing of the gamebyro-standard "radscorpions in rocks" and "flying deathclaws." Incidentally, I haven't seen a single flying deathclaw in NV, while I seemed to see them frequently in FO3.

Come to think of it, I haven't had any gamebreaking quest bugs in NV. Maybe I'm just not doing it right?



Even if these lies about NV being a horribly buggy game for everyone were true, anyone who isn't whining without actually thinking about the situation would look at the content and realize that, due to the exponentially greater degree of interactivity vis a vis FO3, it's much harder to bugtest.

In short, it's a lot easier to bugcheck a quest when it only has one way to complete it, compared to a quest that has eight ways to complete it.



Wouldn't that require them to import some better writers and quest designers, possibly from Obsidian? I mean, Fallout 3 wasn't particularly... Interesting when you get right down to it, what with the poorly constructed* world and how most of the factions were imported from Fallout 1 and 2, and were dumbed down even then in most cases.

*By "poorly constructed", I mean "nonsensical in points/like a series of random locations strung together on a map with little-no connection between them."

How did the brittle fetch-quest addicted Obsidian become the standard-bearers of good quest design? NV may have had more quests than FO3 but they were of a consistently lower standard.

Please elaborate.

So you're telling me that Fallout 3's zany what if scenario quests are better than Fallout New Vegas's more realistic quests? I can't take any of Fallout 3's quests seriously they are that stupid, poorly written, and childish.

I'd say these are both emotional over the top assertions with reality probably lying somewhere in between.

Fetch quest? What? Are you saying that, say, Flags of our Foul-Ups was a fetch quest? Crazy, Crazy, Crazy? Beyond the Beef? Restoring Hope? One for My Baby? For Auld Lang Syne? Eyesight to the Blind? I Forgot to Remember to Forget? The Whitewash? How about the Helios 1 quest? Or the Vault 11 quest? Raul's companion quest? Cass' companion quest?

How were any of those fetchquests?

As for the "good quest design", the quests are good because they have options rather than linearity. Compare, say, the Replicated Man to Beyond the Beef. TRM had three options - you could cancel the quest early by giving Zimmer the fake android part, you could tell Zimmer that Harkness was the android, or you could unlock Harkness' robot memories. Of those, only the last two gave you worthwhile rewards. In BtB you can save Ted or not. If you choose to save him, there are at least three ways to do it that rely upon your character build, not counting shooting your way out of the WGS. You can also offer up one of your human companions as a meal instead with the [cannibal] perk.

And TRM was pretty much the pinnacle of good Bethesdan quest design, with an anemic three options, only two of those being worthwhile.

You mean in terms of options right? Not in terms of the actual quest itself? :tongue:

Well, yeah. I'm talking strictly by mechanics here. In terms of actual content, TRM was basically a blade runner ripoff and it was pretty darn lame.

In fact, the only FO3 quest that really captured the moral ambiguity of Fallout was The Pitt's questline.

Never thought about that before. Maybe that's why The Pitt is my favorite part.

[img]http://www.cinemaretro.com/uploads/kellyoddball.jpg[/img]

People made up their minds, some people prefer the Bethesda Fallout, others prefers the Obsidian Fallout

Some people prefer Oblivion over Morrowind too :blink:

Eyesight to the Blind and Crazy, Crazy, Crazy are essentially the same quest, and if you've done the latter before the former it just becomes, like many of the game's quests, an exercise in trudging to the designated destination to push the required button. Anyway, I'm talking about quests like: Sunshine Boogie; Young Hearts; Still In The Dark; Cold, Cold Heart; I Hear You Knocking; Debt Collector; Wang Dang Atomic Tango; Aba Daba Honeymoon; Don't Make A Beggar Out Of Me; Cry Me A River; Bitter Springs Infirmary Blues; No, Not Much; Return To Sender; Talent Pool [etcetera and so on]. Quests that consist of little more than "go talk to this bloke" or "deliver/collect this package".

In FO3, I had comic-book adventures. In NV, all too often I am an errand boy tasked to deliver messages and pull levers rather than doing anything exciting or fun.

(Booted, though not a fetch quest that was the one that stuck in the craw most. There are unmarked quests with more to them, when a quest title proudly flashes up on screen I expect events to take more than two minutes and to offer some kind of reward, even if it's just a thank-you.)



Non-linearity is admirable, but too often in NV it comes at the expense of robustness; so many of the more interesting quests in the game (most of which you have rightly mentioned) are incredibly fragile and easy to break, leaving you bogged down in savegame management and reaching for the walkthroughs. Beyond The Beef is a case in point, I had to reload about a dozen times between the kitchen and the dining room because the game had decided it didn't like the way I'd done things, or because important characters weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing (*cough*Mortimer*cough). Quest-essential npcs will disappear because they were spoken to at the wrong time, or never appear in the first place, or refuse to acknowledge the package you've brought them, or insist you killed their kith and kin when you did no such thing, and in the end I find myself yearning for a straightforward romp of a quest that doesn't break when you breathe on it.

I salute Obsidian's ambition, but I can't help but think it's also their downfall, and think a desire to have both more quests and more complex quests left them caught between two stools somewhat. I'd rather see fewer, better quests and less "go kill some scorpions mister/go back the way you came to deliver this message" filler quests. Or at least, make them unmarked quests, don't give them fully-fledged quest status. And for goodness' sake stop sending me back to dungeons I've already cleared out, Vault 22's pretty cool at first but the novelty wears off when you're being sent back there for Mcguffin after sodding Mcguffin.


Yes! If I want realistic dogsbody-drudgery and choredom I can find it in real life. I have a real job, I'm not after a virtual one.

Are you kidding me Bethesda is easily the best Developing Company on video games out there nobody comes close. It would be a completely terrible decision unless it was sold to Obsidian as they would be the only other company who would know how to make the game without completely ruining it.

Nevermind. I need to read. I stupid, now I go and cover in shame in a corner. Or maybe take a nap. It's 2 AM in here... :rolleyes:

Imagine This, Fallout, developed by EA :sick: :chaos: :violin: :shocking: :banghead:

That would be a disaster :rofl:

Seriously, this not gonna end in a good way, too much FO3 VS NV in this forums can end very wrong

Eh, when the Skyrim vs Oblivion arguments are raging FO3 vs NV will be happy nostalgia. It's just the nature of the beast.

I don't really see why "go talk to this guy" is a fetch quest. I mean, was Fallout 3's Blood Ties a fetch quest? Go talk to this guy in Meresti, go talk to this guy in Arefu, go talk to this guy in Meresti again, then talk to this other guy in Meresti. How about the Nuka Cola Challenge? Three Dog's quest to get the radio dish? The entire "Go find the GECK" plotline? The quest where you rescue the kids to get into Lamplight? The quest where you deal with the ghouls outside of Tenpenny tower? All those involve talking to someone and relatively little else.

Of course, I also don't see why fetchquests in themselves are bad either. I rather liked many of the "fetchquests" in this game. Talent Pool was a great example.



I think you're looking at FO3 with nostalgia-tinted glasses here. Which is strange because I presume you're still playing it.



...I'm pretty sure all the quests provide some kind of reward.



I haven't encountered any quest breakage of the sort you describe.

FO 3 puts the npcs in costumes, so therefore its not a "clear dungeon and talk to npc at end quest." Oasis, tennpennytower, cantebury commons, the satellite dish, all of them are "clear dungeon to find objective then return." Beyond the beef.... there were so many ways to do that one..... it boggled my mind.

There is a lot of quest overlap in NV, so if you do the game in a different order... well it is a different order

Actually i came to thing that very few people really think that old agmes are a lot better when new ones because the old gamers either being fanatically patriotic or have a nostalgia about F1/F2. So they try to protect them in anyways possible and one of them is to complain about selling the rights to another game.

-Blood Ties was a fetch quest and kind of boring until you ran into VAMPIRES nothing that intrueging can be found in Vegas...

The Nuka Cole Challenge was exactly like the Sunset Sasparilla Star Challenge (and it svcked @ss)

-The Radio Dish quest was rewarding because you were able to hear 3 Dog all across the Wasteland AND got the key to Hamilton's Hideaway (I didn't even mention how it was fun to sneak and attack Super Mutants)

-The G.E.C.K. was locked away in the Vault that created D.C. Super Mutants (and -SPOILER ALERT- You don't even leave the Vault with it because you are kidnapped by the Encalve)

-You have to RESCUE the children (not look around, find, talk to, then go back and recieve an award)

-You have to settle an arguement between a rich billionare and a pack of ghouls

I'll admit I enjoyed Talent Pool the first time I played it (but not as much as the quests with a [-] next to them)

So you're kind of right but kind of wrong F3 has quests that are interesting and rewarding where as NV has quests that are long, drawn out, and dull

ex: Fallout 3: The Superhero Gambit- Deal with F*** superheroes in Canterbury Commons/ Fallout: New Vegas: Wild Card: Side Bets, The House Always Wins Part 3, Things That Go Boom, Render Unto Caesar (All the same F*** Quest Which is bullsh*t because it REALLY destroys replay value)- Run through artillary(the highest part, the beginning) then go inside and help the Boomers with F*** ants?(really I think a missle launcher would do the trick), fall in love(WTF if it were Bethesda that came up with it they'd make the ginger a serial killer, which actually is interesting), recover a plane(Under water for over 200 years and fully functional? bullsh*t... See what I mean one of the most exciting quests in NV hardly compares to an average F3 quest

To each his own. Some of us are more Grand Theft Auto 4/Red Dead Redemption while you're more Saints Row. Different Strokes for different folks

Video games are supposed to be fun to play (see: not read, watch, or listen to; play), first and foremost. If you need a perfect story go read a book. If you need better graphics go watch a movie. If you need a better sound quality go buy some MP3s. If you want a good mixture of them all, play a video game and don't complain when it's not perfect on all fronts. Be thankful that you have interactive media.

Most video games have plot holes in their stories...writing a perfect story (amongst more than one writer (good luck getting them all to agree on every idea be it good or bad) and then designing a game that is fun to play around it while keeping the story perfect is harder than you think... actually I would say it is impossible, and hasn't been done seeing as how people aren't perfect and they make mistakes...(yet people base their hatred for a game on this...)

Fallout 3 is a lot of fun if you just play it as it is, a game that simulates a Nuclear Wasteland.

If you get too caught up in story/lore being too perfect/not good enough for you.. you're ruining your own ability to just relax and enjoy the game.

I guess if you don't have anything better to do, and money isn't a problem for you (therefore you have every game you've ever wanted and don't have to be thankful with what you have ..) then bicker on an online forum about how X game isn't as good as Y game because Y game came out after X game and Y game was made by Z group of people (like that should really matter on whether a game is fun or not).

This is like the 1000th thread complaining about FO3... if you don't like the game don't play it, you can cry about it all day and FO3 is still going to be played and enjoyed by people all over the world... it's part of history now best get used to it.

Nobody is complaining about FO3, they are complaining about each game another,

And i agree that the games if for fun, but some games have need a history, dont care graphics thought they can be 8 bits to me