I've always questioned why Inuits stay in the Arctic.

There's probably some connection, there.

They are natives, wastelanders are survivors, going someplace inhospitable goes against who they are, not the other way around. I also note how there isnt one "normal" Vault in DC, they were all crazy experiments, WHERE DID ALL THE WASTELANDERS COME FROM?

@ToJKa, you know, I dont understand how there are so many people in the BoS, they are all descended from the people whom Maxson led from Mariposa to Lost Hills, how can they afford to send entire chapters accross the country, that also begs the question, how many chapters are there, they simply dont have enough people for a lot of chapters, inbreeding only quickens it.

No, their base was infact on the complete otherside of America, just because it's the Capital and they are the Government doesn't mean anything, they need to focus on surviving and not on a sense of tradition or whatever.

The Enclave was a relatively small part of the government. The majority of them were on the Poseidon Oil Rig partly because it was far away from the capitol, because the capitol would have naturally been targeted. Self-preservation really. They had a few land outposts, but they were mostly refueling stations for vertibirds. None of full fledged military outposts besides Navarro. After all, the Enclave in Fallout 2 had just come out of hiding.

As for the Brotherhood of Steel, Max in San Francisco admitted that the Brotherhood was on a decline. A lot of them being isolationist, arrogantly prideful and overzealous. If the Brotherhood is having trouble, then why would they send a small army, power armor and all, to the capitol? It just doesn't seem feasible to me. The only reason I could think of is to get rid of them, because of how obnoxious they are.

Aren't they descended from the remains of US military? With their recuruitment policies their numbers should indeed be pretty low at this point. Which is the point of Veronica's quest in New Vegas.



Well, i've only played few hours of Fallout 2, never long enough even see the Enclave, much less learn about them :blush: Still, without knowledge from previous games Raven Rock seems like a good location for them to have a base. And i don't remeber it ever being stated whether the Fallout 3 enclave came from the west after Fallout 2 or were based in Raven Rock initially :shrug:

Sorry :blush: , I now just work under the assumption everyone with such a large post count is fully versed in Fallout canon; the Enclave crossed from the Navarro military base on the West Coast probably sometime in the late 2240's. The reasons why have been heavily debated amongst the Enclave buffs here and whilst we all have our theories about Eden and Raven Rock and the actual details of the exodus from East to West there are quite a few substantial plot-holes to the whole thing which have yet to be explained.

ToJKa, they are descendants of a portion of the security department of Mariposa before the war.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Steel

trojKa take a look at the "origins" section.

My attention is divided between TES adn Fallout, i'm not that familiar with either. And i spam a lot :hehe:

Bethesda tends to leave some things unsaid in TES too, so i guess it's anybody's guess at this point. As for the Brotherhood, if their starting numbers were that low, how have they survived this long? :blink:

they keep to themselves and don't get dragged into trench and attrition warfare like the East BoS Plus they aren't that big an organization to begin with (in FO1 +2) so you see how rediculious it is for the massive undertaking and manpower sent to DC is?

Hence the, "No BoS for one game, PLEASE!" thread, they simply shouldnt be around anymore.

Get rid of the bos and put in the enclave as a minor fraction!

In my own playthroughs I usually eliminate BOS entirely and spawn enclave soldiers in their place. Seems fitting to me at least.

Which still doesn't make sense. The majority of the Enclave's population was on the Poseidon Oil Rig. The Poseidon Oil Rig goes boom leaving Navarro and a few scattered vertibird refueling depots. Yet in Fallout 3 there is somehow not only a full standing army, but even more than what I've seen on Navarro and the Poseidon Oil Rig?

You know what I think is behind the massive Enclave army in FO3?

You ready?

Here it is:


Gaarrryyy

Y'know, a faction of Garys that would live on a commune, abide by the garystitution, live in garyhouses, and sell Vault jumpsuits at gary low prices.

This is a bit random, but does anybody know how to spawn NPC's in game?

player.placeatme should work. It's actually "player.placeLeveledActorAtMe ". So to spawn Gary 1 (in Fallout 3) type

player.placeleveledactoratme 4168a

You can find the NPC's base ID's at http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Wiki

What I think is a bit silly is that in Fallout 1 you meet the BoS, who is a minor faction, isolationists, xenophobic and they're not that many. Then you see the super mutant army, who are created from FEV which only exists in Mariposa, and you kill them off and the remnants scatter and flee in different directions to the east. In Fallout 2, there's the Enclave, who has their main base and most personel at the Oil Rig which you blow up and therefore the Enclave is pretty much dead.

So, we have the minor faction BoS which is declining and are probably inbreeding. We have the mutant army, who can't reproduce without kidnapping humans and dip into FEV-vats which only exist at Mariposa which they've now fled and they've scattered. We have the Enclave, who blew up and what remained at Navarro and their refuiling depots probably scattered aswell, like told in NV, they tried to integrate into the NCR but was hunted down for their past, so they have to flee and hide their identity.

Then, in Fallout 3, the BoS shows up in a bigger force than they ever were in Fallout 1 and 2, and this is apparently just a fraction they sent, across ~3000 miles of post-apocalyptica to convenietly get to the same city where there's a HUGE army of Enclave, which were terminated in the last game, and also a HUGE army of super mutants without a leader, and they apparently come from a Vault that somehow had FEV, which they in the game seem to have run out of, but there's still tons and tons of them how many you kill and there's no way to liberate the wasteland of them.

In conclusion, three major faction in previous Fallouts who are either dead, scattered or declining, show up in HUGE quantities in the same city ~3000 miles away.

It's basically these plotholes.

Yet i am perfectly willing to believe DC had it's own separate Enclave garrison and FEV experiment base, after all like you said it's 3000 miles away. Maybe they didn't know everything back west :hehe: The BoS is a bit harder to explain though.

It would seem Fallout 3 was aimed at a new fanbase, so introduction of these traditional parties was required. That of course doesn't excuse the plotholes, but like i say, if you can't park an american car in them, i most likely won't notice

I remember hearing that there from the west coast

They are. The oil rig was their main base of operation, and housed the majority of the Enclave's population. Which is why there would be even more of them is all the more mind-boggling.

*While Typing and working on my report* While i am definitely not debating you as i doubt the numbers that did appear still astound me as well, according to Arcade, some did go to the east coast when Navarro fell, some like William Brandice and his Family, who traveled crossed the country, only to die in Greyditch. So it is logical to assume some made it to Chicago, Raven Rock, or Adams Air Force Base to report there. I have to check my sources, but i think Colonel Autumn was from the west coast as well, or at least his father was, and he took himself and his son to Raven Rock when the Oil Rig went up?

I thought we seddold the enclave thing in the enclave reappering in fallout thread

Yes, i am still on occasion tripping over their armor pieces and body parts. According to what i found out, Colonel Autumn's Father got order's from President Toaster(Eden) to pull all troops from Navarro to the east coast. I agree that the numbers do not add up unless they had an army the size of the pre war military, and i seriously doubt they had the numbers. I am not going to figure that one out, I'll let the scribes do that, they don't have enough to do, pulling pranks all the time, like setting off the self destruct protocol for a few moments, and filling my helmet with jello and wasps. I got wandering in these ruins to do, i thought i saw signs of Raiders.....

Trust me old sport it is unfathomable along with many other things.