Each ES game has ended with a stone/tower being taken.

Amulet of Kings,

Heart Of Lorkan,

etc...


Is there a plot to destroy Mundus?

White Gold and Brass Towers were both mer-made constructs. White Gold Tower was likely built to give the Ayleids the power to shape or control their domain, and whatever the case, it seems to be the center of their government. Brass Tower was as a part of a Dwemer plan to reverse their creation. Both served other purposes, but

Red Tower, I don't fully understand. The use of Sunder and Keening in Morrowind was to dispel the enchantments that Kagrenac had put on the heart, but it caused the entire heart to disappear. Was the Tower active before the Dwemer meddled with its stone, not unlike how the Dragonfires had to be lit to activate White Gold Tower while under the control of the Imperials? Or did Sunder and Keening do more than just undo what Kagrenac did?

Of course, either way least some of the myths attribute the presence of Lorkhan's heart in Red Mountain to Trinimac, a mer. And the enchantments on the heart were placed there by a Mer.

I was uunder the impression that Kagrenac did not place enchantments on the Heart, rather he used it's power.
I would disagree that the Brass Tower served it's purpose, but that is off topic. The Heart was intended to be it's anchoring stone, but obviously something went wrong.
I think that Red Tower was the work of the Dwemer, but rather than using an anchoring stone full of mortal souls, they used one with the soul of a God (although all mortals are kinda just fractions of Lorkhan anyway)
It seems to me that each anchoring stone is a miniature dreamsleeve or something, which kinda ties into the idea of Umbriel in the new book somehow.
We really need to know the fate of the Heart.

Anyway, i definately subscribe to the basis of this theory, whether it is some giant evil conspiracy or some cosmic inevitibility.

I thought the Daedra wanted to destroy the Mundus so that they could svck up all the raw creatia for their own whims? Or, at least Dagon wants to, but that's 'cause he likes destroying things.

The Heart did have enchantments on it. You remove them when you use the Tools on it.

Red Tower was formed by the Heart of Lorkhan landing. That is the other only god-made tower.

And we basically know the fate of the Heart: it's not in Red Tower anymore. That's all that matters, in terms of its fate.

@CP: It doesn't make sense for Red Tower to be inactive before the Dwemer's presence. The whole reason Dagon shows up is because of its deactivation. TES Oblivion would probably have happened at game II instead of IV. Also, ALL the towers besides Direnni and Red are mer made. Read the Intercept again: the Towers are mimics of the originals.

edit: And in an attempt to actually answer the original question, Mundus is screwed. It's happened an infinite amount of times and it's gonna keep happening.

Would you care to elaborate?

I was under the impression that they just want to play around with it in ways that fit their sphere, for Dagon, this is deatruction, so he destroys things.

But it certainly doesn't make much sense that any conscious attempt to destroy the world is being made, at least, not by someone from that same world, after all, if you really get down to it, while trying to destroy the world makes a very serious threat for your heroes to face, as an evil plan, it isn't exactly very beneficial for you in most cases, especially if it's your own world you're trying to destroy, since generally, one would expect you to die with the world, and the general consensus is that this is not very desirable, so if you're a prospective evil mastermind trying to choose a plan, destroying the world would probably be low on the list.

I could see Mehrunes Dagon trying it due to his nature, but for anyone else, it just doesn't make sense, and even he would be wise to leave something behind so he can have something to destroy in the future, though I don't think Mehrunes Dagon is that wise.



So in essence, the world is always doomed, and keeps going through a cycle of being doomed?

Yes, that sounds consistent.

Mehrunes Dagon isn't out to destroy Mundus for the sake of it, although one would like to draw that conclusion. He really does have a tangleble purpose, and that is to return to the time when he wasn't Mehrunes Dagon, but the Leaper Demon King, who seemed to have been the opposite of MD. Before the creation of Mundus, he constantly cut corners, as to not be consumed by Alduin (nord Akatosh), and helped others cut corners. However, he was caught, Alduin cursed him to no longer leap, and if he wanted to return to being the Leaper Demon King, he has to destroy all of Mundus.

So Akatosh could eat it again. The problem is, since new stuff keeps coming in from various Aetherial matter which eventually degrades to mass (welkynd stones) he will never succeed. That's why this is important. Who gives a [censored] if it was the same as all the rest?

That's where my theory comes from. The Nord view is a little distorted by time, but the god-parts that were given up to make the world want to rejoin the gods and are trying to unmake the world so they can recombine. The gods, who can't effect the world directly, also want to rejoin. Therefore they manipulate dagon, but he always fails just short because Shor sends out heroic intervention.

I like it. Gives a whole new twist on the interactions between deities, Shor, and the daedra. It also somewhat fulfills both merish and mannish views of the creation of the world, in my semi-disjointed thinking right now. Curse you Sponge Bob!

But White Gold Tower didn't require its stone to be within the tower to be active. Nor did merely having the stone inside it mean it was active. As for you saying the Oblivion Crisis would have happened sooner, I don't fully understand what you mean.

Apologies to jackfrost and CP for the vagueness of my relevant statements.

I have reason to believe that the Akatosh statue that Martin became is the Stone of White Gold now. And I said it the Crisis would have happened sooner because, from my understanding, the negation of Red Tower weakened the barrier between Mundus and Oblivion enough for Dagon to come through. Its negation was pretty instrumental in allowing his invasion.

To jackfrost: Alduin has eaten the world before and he's gonna do it again; he bit half of Snow Throat off. Just as surely as the world was made will it be destroyed. "None shall survive" and all that.


If you mean "doomed" as in "destroyed" then yes.

Mundus is gonna get eaten. Then it's gonna get crapped out again. It's an infinite cycle. The only way to break it is apotheosis, e.g. CHIM.

ugh...I just realized I double posted....

That sort of divine symbol, like the Petrified remains of Akatosh. I don't think it can be classified in Stone/Tower terms. Maybe as a tower on its own, but it seems to me to be more of a direct affirmation of covenent. As long as it stands, the redefined covenent between Aka and Man will remain, protecting Mundus from Oblivion.

Thank you, and I've since put two and two together

Its always under threat of breaking... Is Mundus Lorkhan's state of chim?

I know the Teachings say he failed, but failure is just another point of view.

It's been said so many times before but I'll say it again: he failed so we wouldn't. He saw the Tower and was basically like "wow this is pretty neat. Let me make it to where EVERYONE can do it!"

Lorkhan didn't do it because he "failed by his own devices:" his constituents the Aedra. Zero sum = failing by your own devices, from my perspective. But this is just MY perspective.

Technically, Oblivion began with a Tower being taken out of commission - Daggerfall and Morrowind were the ones that ended with it (while Arena, Redguard and Battlespire didn't involve Towers being taken).

Anyway, I think you're missing the rather obvious thing: The events of Oblivion were that plot - that was the Oblivion Crisis.

So we're told, but how could he have zero summed? His spirit couldn't wander the earth and sky if he's zero summed; he couldn't intervene in his creation. Nirn is said to be Lorkhan's plan to achieve chim, if that attempt hadn't failed, how would anyone know? What if history/the world is the true dawning, as described in the teachings, which Lorkhan has managed to preserve, despite apocalyptic attacks from within and without Nirn?

Which is one of the reasons I don't talk about this alot; I don't know how to answer that with a surefire answer yet. The only other explanation I could give is that gods can't zero sum. OR he just didn't Zero Sum; he just din't achieve CHIM...which doesn't make much sense in the context. <_<

I won't dare play like I'm an MK-Mumbo-Jumbo expert, but I remember him talking about this in a past thread. I darn sure won't say you're wrong.

Reading and re-reading "World eating 101" might help..... maybe?

I don't think I've ever read it. Thank you, Talyn.

I know I havn't :rock:

What do you guys mean by Zero-Sum and achieving CHIM? Isn't CHIM apotheosis? Lorkhan already is a God, though

~confused~

He's was a god, but he wasn't God...

:turtle:

Arena: A myth-echo of the earthbones are broken.
Daggerfall: The Shezzarine gets his heart back.
Morrowind: Lorkhan gets his heart back.
Oblivion: The enantiomer of Lorkhan gets the myth-echo of Lorkhan's heart back.
Shivering Isles: The daedric counterpart of Lorkhan gets his mind back
Infernal City: A myth-echo of Lorkhan's planet landfalls
???
Profit!

It depends on what you're thinking about the world. Of course if you consider it's the place where you're living, destroying makes no sense. But if you're viewing it as the prison that traps the divine spark that's your soul within chains of matters, destroying isn't a bad thing. It's breaking the chains that shackles you away from the true nature you should have inherited from your divine ancestors. Freeing you from the limits of mortality imposed by the material world. Which is indeed a good thing.