Before reading further know that this is not a spoiler but it is a discussion about plot theory. If you do not even want to guess about the plot then click the back button.


So I was thinking.. You are a dragonborn and you have the soul of a dragon in you, Todd mentioned he did not want to delve further into that. You consume other dragon souls. For some reason you are around when Alduin rises again. Now, this is theoretical but I was doing some thinking.. Could it be possible that Alduin is inside of you? You consume dragon souls and for some reason we cannot be told much about the apparent dragon soul that is in the main character. It is quite possible that you find this out and find a way to expel Alduin from your body at some point but you are playing right into fate's hands. Then you must attempt to defeat the almighty Alduin yourself. OR some cult of mages capture you and use their magic to extract Alduin from your body to resurrect him. Thoughts on this?

seems unlikely

It would be kind of hard to hold a plane(t) inside your body.

Read the OP, I was referring to the spirit of Alduin more or less. Not physical matter.

The God and the Plane(t) are the same thing. Besides, There really isn't anything to indicate the Time Dragon is restrained in such a manner.

nope you are right, this is why it is a theory.

I think it's more like just slaying him and that's it

Oh it won't be that simple. You cannot simply slay the God of Time. I imagine our fight with Alduin will be symbolic, a battle by which we will install a new order of the ages. My guess is that we'll supress the cyclic elements of the Time Dragon, and restore the non-cyclical elements that are found in Alduin's mirror brother, Akatosh.

well you are levels above me in terms of lore. You lost me.

Alduin is a spirit (albeit an extraordinarily potent one by most standards), so to hold that [aspect of] him inside the protagonist would essentially make the protagonist Alduin. Now I'm all for powerful player characters, but that might unbalance things a bit...

Why the time god would care to be confined to a single mortal body is another matter... and quite an ironic prospect, considering his elven and nordic aspect's possible motivations (Akatosh is sort of trapped in a mortal world already).

because its the best hiding place ever? who would think to look for a spirit on a mortal plane in a mortals body bliviongate: in TES.

Oh no, I think we may very well find a way to "slay" him either physically, spiritually, mentally or all combined, or possibly banish/rebuke him. However, I wonder if there will be a downside to it all? We and those aiding us after all are only mortals, and mortals are selfish and wish to live, usually without any regard for the consequences.

What kind of a twist would it be, that by preserving our current state of being by thwarting Alduin from destroying and remaking the world, has repercussions in the end? What if Nirn, aside from being tethered to him, also happened to have an "expiration date"?

What if by removing him from the equation and preventing him from recycling so to speak, we doom our existence as the world will be incapable of renewing itself. We will continue living in the short term, but in the long term we have erased all possibility of there being a future.

^ In The Seven Fights of the Aldudagga, Alduin says to the "demon" that will become Dagon,
"... do you even know what would HAPPEN if that happened, my dying and being unable to eat and the kalpa left to run forever?"

Which is pretty ominous really. I'm far from a lore expert, so others can probably interpret the possible consequences in a lot more detail.

Good that you pick up on this, its been discussed recently and you'd be able to tie a few parts together if you had a sort of understanding about what the very existence of Mundus is.


none the less one thought is it would be like never ending line to draw on together, but something is finite and it is important that things are chewed away to allow renewal and Akatoshes ability to consume existence is limited as hinted in the Seven Flights where he "feels" more full each time and doesn't know why.


also...does Seven flights have to do with anything? has Alduin completed this proccess seven times?

Wait, what do you mean Akatosh is sort of trapped in a mortal world already? I am not an expert on the lore but I have never come across anything that even alludes to that.

Most Aedra are bound to nirn for it to exist, there is an excerpt in lore where someone is making a statement along the lines of

Undo the binds and free ourselves from Mundus effectively destroying all that is Nirn.

Theory, supposition and non lore ideas, feel free to tell me I am talking nonsense :

The original spirits in the void were sets of ideas, but without a framework to form coherent personalities, but when Akatosh became fully formed, the flow of time started, and these ideas could form trains of thought, becoming distinct, self aware, personae. Some of these personalities could still not fully realise themselves, for example Dagon had to create a plane of Oblivion full of the disasters and upheavals he personifies.

One of the unrealised spirits was Lorkhan, no good having the sphere of protection when nothing needs protecting. So he conceived a world in which mortal creatures existed, not only fulfilling his sphere's nature by giving him something to protect from death and destruction, but giving the new mortals something to protect and nurture, allowing them to create new personalities through having children. The weaker spirits became mortals, or the 'bones', while the still immortal, more powerful spirits became trapped in this mortal world, and took revenge on Lorkhan, destroying his body.

Now my totally non lore idea is, when Lorkhan was destroyed, certain mortals became infused with his spirit, effectively his children, and charged, unknowingly with his need and duty to protect the mortal realm. Alessia was obviously the child of one of these bloodlines, and Imperial history confused her pact with Akatosh, assuming her line's power to protect the world to come from their new chief god, hence the term Dragonborn. The myth arose that there was only one such line, hence the Blade's eventual duty to protect the Imperial line, the Dragonborn they knew of.

So my idea is the Dovahkiin is a child, or avatar of part of the spirit of Lorkhan, not dead but split apart and hidden in mortal families. This not only gives a reason for the character's ability to defeat the avatar of Alduin, but has to be more fun than watching someone else becoming the avatar of the Imperial Akatosh.

I suspect the main quest will involve getting Lorkhan his heart back so he can fight Alduin.

I couldn't care less, I'll do the main quest probably after 300 hours of side quests and mods.

I doubt gamesas would resolve two games in a row with "And god did manifest itself to beat up another god." While Shor might be dealt with in the plot, I imagine the conclusion will be something less similar to Oblivion's ending.

I have a question which is sort of related. Just the nature of these gods and how they seem to have different sides or versions. For example do the gods themselves actually change, depending on who worships them? Like when the Imperial beliefs are stronger then he becomes Akatosh, and when the old nord beliefs are more prevalent, as it will be seeing as the empire is waning, then he becomes Alduin? Or do they just appear differently at different times? I've read various lore sources, but none have been totally clear on that.

I don't have any comments on how it might fit with lore, but it sounds intriguing. It also reminds me of the plot to Shadow of the Colossus - eating souls, turning into a demon, but that story also had the luxury of playing out as a tragedy. They would have to find a direction as you suggest, so that the Dragonborn can live on after the main plot...to chop wood and such.

Seems very unlikely. According to your theory it sounds like Alduin will just keep coming back. After you defeat him the first time, you will still defeat other dragons and absorb their souls, so it's like a never-ending process. Absorb souls, defeat Alduin, absorb souls, defeat Alduin. Ya know?

My own theory is that while there are occasional people born with the soul of a dragon (hence other dragonborn), only one born with the soul of Ysmir is capable of standing against Alduin and succeeding. I see a few possibilities for the endgame, and they are not mutually exclusive so more than one could be true:

1) Defeating Alduin, the Dovahkiin absorbs his soul and that it is the combination of Ysmir and Alduin that produces Talos (or maybe Akatosh, the distinctions are a little unclear to me)

2) That at the climix of the fight you have to take on the form of a dragon to finish Alduin off. Maybe a little too reminiscent of the final fight in Oblivion tho, so maybe not.

3) There may be some distinction made between acting as the vessel for a god's will/essence and 'being' a god.

4) This is just a hunch, but I'm betting that there will be some major change to the landscape after the fight to mark it. In Morrowind there was just the cessation of the blight weather around Red Mountain and the termination of the ghostfence. In Oblivion we had the statue in Bruma and the changes to the Temple of the One. I think both Bethesda and fans liked these touches, and I'd bet that they plan to do something on a large scale along these lines in Skyrim. Possibilities include a Mount Rushmore-type thing, or a mountain becoming a crater, or what have you. For sure though, the night sky is likely to change a bit.

Ysmir is simply the Nordic version of Talos. Alduin is the Nordic version of Akatosh.