Not true. A Senche-rahts size and feline body mechanics are similar to a tiger. A tiger can run at 35 MPH, and is 11 ft long, so that tribesman goes splat to a Pahmer (Same size and abilities as a Tiger). After calcuating the difference, a Senche-raht can be assumed to be able to run at speeds between 82(3/4 tiger ratio) and 112 MPH(Tiger ratio). If you want to go too conservative (1/2 Tiger ratio) on Senche-Raht speed, you're still looking at 56 MPH.

So, yeah. Senche-raht are Fast.

A pair of 35" legs is nothing compared to a set of four 120"-160"+ legs (A cat's legs start near the the top of the haunches.)

So, when are we having a strict political RP involving the Empire? Lore-based?

When you make the RP thread? :shrug:

Why wait for anyone else to do it?

1. I am no good with creating or managing RPs. Never did anyway.

2. The RP forum is dead. No one visits. I expected some awesome number of Rpers but instead, we get 3 posts a day. If I made an RP, I would have to kick some people off.

Well if you're interested in a political RP, I suggest you join the IB Timeline. It's about to pick a new scenario to RP in so maybe get into the discussion the the IB Discussion thread, and help choose one of the places to begin the next RP.

If we're going military style, the best idea would be to keep more skilled mages as a kind of artillery and air support unit in the ranks while less skilled mages will act as a special shock troop unit where they fight with both a sword and magic.For fine points....

* How many mages an army could realistically contain.
Not very. Remember that magic requires even more practice than a swordsman or archer. Not to mention of the thousands in the Mage's Guild, about 10 mages are skilled enough to wield any useful spells for artillery shots.

* The use of less skilled mages within the infantry ranks, as battlemages.
Yup. Don't put them on the front lines but put them in the second ranks so that they can be using magic and when the front line crumbles, the second ranks can advance and attack them with touch spell magic and swords at the same time. But if the less skilled mages can use healing spells to others, put them on the back ranks for healing the front ranks soldiers when they get dragged back.

* The use of more skilled mages as support troops to the infantry or missile troops, offering healing and other "buffs".
Not JUST medics. The more skilled mages should stay back or in the middle of the ranks so that they can be like an artillery troop, lobbing large and powerful fire spells across the field into the enemies encampment or going on a hill and shooting at the enemies with powerful spells. And those in the middle ranks would obviously do some kind of buff spell once in a while.

* The use of skilled mages' offensive magic, such as destruction spells.
As artillery or missiles. Enough said. Fire spells for burning, lightning for morale loss, and frost for freezing. ENOUGH SAID.

* The ideal location for said skilled mages, and how to protect them from possible attack.
In between the ranks so that it's impenetrable unless they get flanked or on top of a hill a bit far from the battlefield.

* Anti-magic tactics, especially for a less magically inclined army (such as Nords or Redguards) fighting a more magically inclined army (Altmer or Dunmer).
Mages have weak armor. Weak armor translates to being killed in one shot with an arrow. Melee troops should be fighting normally while the arrow snipers specifically target the Mages.

* The use of magic for defensive tactics, such as shield spells.
Mages in the middle ranks should be casting defensive spells when the melee troops meet the enemy melee troops.

I think you over-estimate the killing efficiency of an arrow fired from a considerable distance. For one thing, in the event of archers getting within range of the target mages, then the mage are certainly in range of said archers and in a duel the mages will win. You can go into an obvious loose formation, they can cast shield spells on themselves if they see they are about to become targets for arrows and magicka is more accurate then an arrow plus magicka can do area of effect damage.

And if you are a commander that uses mages aggressively, like I'm sure an Altmer army might, simple foresight of giving your mages simple padded tunics. At range, that simple piece of padded cloth could potentially stop a killing arrow to make it just a stinging hit. Combine it with even the most mild of Shield spells and now you can counter the helpless archers with a barrage of magick. Unlike LotR where every arrow fired = one soldier killed, in reality it does not work like that. Many would miss, either short, long or hitting the large gaps which equals more area then spread out mages bodies and the ones that do hit, many would be glancing hits with their energy spent at such a long range and would be stopped by the padded armor/shield combo or would hit a non-vital area. Once again, unlike LotR, not every arrow manages to hit someone in the neck from a million miles away so the amount of shots that actually hit a vital area like the neck/head/ect would be minimal and a small percentage of shots would pierce major organs and such. Plus an arrow to the foot or leg or arm doesn't necessarily mean you are out of the battle.

IMHO, archers are probably the least effective counter against mages if the commander takes the steps to ensure his mages are equipped or if the mages have the sense to shield themselves, which if you think about it most people would do if it meant saving themselves :shrug:

EDIT: Of course it's all relative to how far the archers are, if the mages choose to ignore them, and such. If the mages are focused elsewhere the archers could theoretically shoot all day at the mages, but once the mages retaliate I firmly believe that between an archer force and a mage force, the mages would win, mostly because the archers would turn and flee. No one wants to die.

Remember that there's a bunch of melee units getting slaughtered that the mage is supposed to help and an archer, if sneaky,. can easily flank the Mage. But then again, anything that's sneaky could flank the mage on top of the hill and kill them. Aggressive mages still, can't compete with something they can't see.

That could be said about the archers though :shrug:

It's entirely situational and any one who refuses to use more than one strategy will the loser in the battle. "It is a good plan, that which can be altered." Or something along those line :laugh:

give the archers that are supposed to eliminate the mages enchanted arrows. i don't know if it is possible but should the arrows be enchanted with something like absorb or resist magic, then it would go through the shield spells of the mage and then it is simply a matter of good aiming and a steady hand, and luck.

Consider the cost of equipping a group of any size of archers with enough enchanted arrow to stand in a battle. Even if they are a special task force and only they are given the arrows, the cost I think would still be quite high considering the risk of how vulnerable those archers are to groups of cavalry or light skirmishers, ect.

If the mages really wanted to, a resist magicka spell or reflect magicka would suffice enough to at least minimize the damage done by the enchanted arrows.

the group of archers don't have to be big, just big enough to kill those mages and small enough to easily traverse the battle field. when you have mages in you're army they can enchant the arrows before battle begins. train them in the illusion school of magic and alchemy, even if the mages can cast a resist magicka or reflect magicka spell, the poison they can use on their first shot can be very lethal.

i guess this is where some sort of assassins come in. but they would have to be trained well and that would cost money. but as i said they don't have to be with a lot, just enough.

Of course, but if your mages are enchanting dozens of arrows before hand, then they will not be too effective once battle is joined as they will have spent lots of their energy enchanting. Game mechanics are pretty much always set aside when it comes to forum RP'ing so even though in OB your magicka came back right away, I think it would be generally accepted here that if your mages were spending all morning enchanting arrows, they will not be up to the task of having a strong presence on the battlefield.

Assassins would be effective but once again, if spotted, they are virtually done by any unengaged cavalry if they are in relatively open ground.

yes, wen the assassins are spotted they're done, aslong as they can eliminate their targets before being spotted.

now i don't mean enchant the arrows right before battle, but over time. you know you are going to war atleast some time before the battle starts. unless you are surprised, but then again you should be prepared.

how long does it take for your magicka to replenish according to the role play forums ? i'm not really a roll player, always intend to join a rp when it starts but there's always something that comes between.

Ah I see now. Well then yes I suppose it's possible while your preparing weapons and supplies to also be enchanting arrows and such. I think the cost would still be high but it would defiantly be doable. As for magicka replenishing, there isn't really a set time and such, but more of a grey area where it becomes "polite and mature" to admit that your mage has been casting bolts of pure energy left and right for a couple minutes, so maybe he gets tired and has to retreat. It really comes down to everyone being a good sport about it and in my experience most people is quite fair when it comes to RP'ing mages.

I think you people are underestimating the killing power of an arrow. Nothing short of at least a layer of high-quality steel will stop a Longbow's arrow from punching right through. Padded and leather armors are jokes, the arrow will overpenetrate not just the armor, but also much of the body, and finally punch out through the back of the armor opposite the initial penetration point (There's a medieval report of a knight's horse getting killed after completely overpenetrating his armored thigh). They can also be fired from pretty decent distances at a cost to accuracy (So volley fire is used, or the ridiculously awesome aiming skills of a Bosmer Marksman mercenary), but they retain full power. Iron armor lets the arrow punch right through, but probably prevents overpenetration. (Which, as Cherim notes, is even harder to heal than complete impalement, which isn't always lethal.)

I do not see any lore support for DarkZerker's assessment of the rarity of mages. This is a world where anyone can learn magic, and it's not really harder to learn the arcane arts than the martial arts. However, most people (including soldiers) aren't really trained in the Martial arts either. (Instructions for training a longbow archer: Step 1 - Start with his grandfather.)

Yes, there's a documentary about how an arrow cannot penetrate a steel briastplate. On the other hand, there are notable flaws in that video, such as a stupid arrowhead and completely wrong angle of impact... as well as a high-quality steel briastplate instead of a more common armor.

It's hard to make a Shield spell that can stop an arrow.

People keep overstating the quality and understating the quantity of magic, treating them like some sort of God effect that they are not. Even Bandit Hedge Wizards have decent and useful spell knowledge.

The response to being caught on fire by a mage is to kick the mage's ass while in fire! The response to being blasted by lightning is to laugh off the tingling sensation then stab them in the face

Enchanted arrows = expensive.

You've actually got to pay the bastards to enchant the arrows. It's not something that magically happens. It was VERY expensive to get weapons enchanted on Oblivion. Any mage won't do it for free.

If arrows really were that powerful, everyone would have been an archer. If they could punch through steel that easily why would you equip your men or bother buying your expensive steel armor if some clown with a piece of wood is gonna kill you anyways? Those videos you watch apparently (I'm sure you have some TVTropes on it too), I can guarantee the majority are shot from a short distance away.

Me and Derk were discussing archers firing across the battlefield from a respectable distance, I merely said that at such a range, arrows lose a decent amount of their velocity. Padded armor is more effective then one might think, or else why would they bother wearing it all? If it didn't do anything, just save the wool and linen for your pillows and go fight without a shirt. The poor wore it because it was cheap and at least offered them some protection from weapons.

Now, go stick a fork into the nearest outlet and see if you can run fifty yards and punch your dog. please post results and a video of this experiment.

yeah, enchanted arrows are expensive, but in oblivion you had to pay the mages guild who were not working for you.(unless you are the archemage, but the scholars keep talking to you disrespectfull even if you are the archemage so i take it as a flaw in development of the game)

i guess when the army leader tasks the mages with enchanting arrows they'd do it. because he is their superior and there are punishments for not following orders. if you join the army as mage then enchanting is included in what you are paid for.

Yeah, and if I am some mage who joins the army, and that is in the agreement...

Then they are going to be PAYING me a hell of a lot of money, that's for sure.

Why do you think guns became so popular? Because a gunman was like an underpowered archer without the need for years of training. Step 1 in training an archer: Start with his Grandfather. It then takes years of training to be able to pull a bow with a draw strength in excess of 150 lbs (The standard historic longbow). Also, crafting the bow is pretty expensive. But, historically, the English continued pwning anyone who made the switch to guns with their longbows for years. A longbow's also better than all crossbows but the Arbalest.

They don't lose their velocity at that range... They're aerodynamic enough to not lose forward momentum flying through the air, and their terminal velocity is high enough gravity completely replaces lost vertical trajectory from launch.

Padded armor protects against slashing and bludgeon blows in melee, not against arrows.

Where'd you get the idea a common shock spell has the strength of the current produced by an electrical outlet? I figure it would be more akin to grabbing and holding an Electric Fence for a short amount of time.

Yeah, and if I am some mage who joins the army, and that is in the agreement...

Then they are going to be PAYING me a hell of a lot of money, that's for sure.

(sorry forgot to quote)

or not, and the army that is supposed to defend your city gets slaughtered, the enemy destroys your village or city and you die thinking: [numble], i should have helped them instead of being greedy.

@Gavril: I wouldn't be too keen on forcing your men to do what you say for no extra pay. You are just one man and they are thousands. They have the real power in the nations, not you. (you = commander, ect.)



Of course you would.

true. but i guess when you join the army you should be willing to do what your commander orders you to do. it's not good to force them but how good is an army when everyone says: " oh no, i'm not doing that, find someone else to do that." then when you gice the task to someone else, that person says the same and so on.

Of course. It wouldn't be so much an army, as a bunch of individuals. However, man (or mer) has a tendency to get as much gain as possible from any situation, and if enchanting was needed by the general, I would expect the mages to simply want more pay :shrug: