A poll about the brotherhood.

This is my first poll I have ever created. If my option are confusing, I am sorry.

Need changes is the closest option to none of above.

Personally I don't like what Bethesde did to them. How did they do that? Didn't Maxson worship Sarah as a kid? How do the good moral route from FO3 turn into expansion, xenophodia miltary dictorship?

There a well written faction now instead of a bunch of white-knights trying to give purified water to all the wasteland vagabonds.

I consider them to be a happy medium between the force of the FO3 brotherhood, and the ideology of the western BOS.

They're back to actually being the Brotherhood of Steel, instead of the Society of Wasteland Philantropists.

So, yeah, love them.

"We hoard technology so that others do not abuse it."

What, you mean like becoming warlike, supremacist facist bullies? Just blegh.

That the problem I like having a pro-tolerant faction and anti-tolerant faction. When Bethesda kill off Sarah Lyon shortly after Elder Lyons died of natural causes seems like a cheap excuse just turn the BOS into a Encalve clone. I perfer the old FO3 BOS with a faction loyal to Lost Hills.

Maybe in a DLC we find that Sarah Lyons was dead after all only missing, and you can decide whether not to help her retake BOS in her father image or her Maxson quell the upraising in his ranks.

Very much this.

I think Bethesda have done an outstanding job of making each of the factions morally grey with no "this faction is good, this one is evil" bullsh*t. I like the fact the Brotherhood are back to their old ways. Makes them far more interesting as a faction. While I don't necessarily agree with them philosophically I'd rather have them this way than the way they were under Lyons; that's what the Minutemen are for.

They were a well-written faction in Fallout 3 but nobody bothered to pay attention because they assume the Elders=God and that the rank and file didn't like being heroes.

:-p

Sarah Lyons turning up in a DLC would be AWESOME, though.

Albeit, I already blew them up.

I think something that is being overlooked is that Maxson is protecting the Commonwealth. The Brotherhood in the west doesn't do this. They just hoard tech.

Maxson clearly learned something from Lyons -- but keep in mind that Lyons didn't start off as being okay with sentient ghouls. He was originally racist as hell -- until he left and started exploring.

"(...) I likened Elder Lyons's situation to that of the Vault Dweller in Fallout. Both of them were raised in an insular, xenophobic, technologically advanced society, were cast out of that society on a mission to find some important tech, and found themselves alone and in control of their destiny for the first time. And like the Vault Dweller ( at least, the Vault Dweller on my saved games ), he displayed that all-too human trait of compassion and went about helping people.^{http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Owyn_Lyons#cite_note-ricardogonzalez-1}

I think a lot of what kept the Brotherhood how the Brotherhood was, dogmatic, secretive, and so on, was their group-imposed isolation. Once you send a contingent out into the wastes, away from that continual feedback of norms and values, people are bound to start making up their own minds about things."^{http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Owyn_Lyons#cite_note-ricardogonzalez-1}

Where is the all of the above option?

I like them as they are or rather as they are portrayed as. This change or devolution makes sense from an in universe perspective, several fans including me foresaw this development even before F4 was announced.

I also think they are xenophobic bigots with delusion of grandeur with added incompetence and ignorance.

They also need to change for the better so that someone doesn't exploded them for being annoying threats who cause unecessary harm and suffering with their moronicity. Hint hint!

They aren't high tech raiders though.

I and others hope for an expansion where there will be an option to find a surgical prodcure to remove the very painful pointy piece of wood that is stuck up their headhole.

Killing off organizations that disagree with them? Force Settlers to give up their crops and weapons? I don't see any attempt in negotiate or giving settlers some mudane technology to make their lives more effienct and easier.

I think it was a good idea, personally.

But I think people who think it was a GOOD thing are dumb.

The BOS change is a TRAGEDY and that's why it's good.

Because tragedies are good storytelling.

I don't like what Bethesda did to them in FO3, im glad they're closer to what they used to be now.

That where I disagree with you Azhubham

That depend on the audience. Some people believe tragedies are worst storytelling.

I like the concept where BOS are human and this single minded cult. That why I like having Pro-Tolereance Faction and Pro-Purity faction.

With their constant "kill all non humans/impure humans!" I wouldn't be surprised if they're being run by Enclave infiltrators

Wonder how long until Maxson asks me to put an FEV vial into the water supply...

Seeing, I think the BOS as stupid single-minded jerkasses who NEVER CHANGE OVER CENTURIES is moronic.

That doesn't happen in reality.

I like it with Lyons trying to change them and failing.

Bah.

"The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual. only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banolity of evil and the terrible boredom of pain." — Ursula K. Le Guin,

If tragedy is good storytelling then the Carcrashians and Joisey Bore would be good or any of the X wives of whateverton or soap opera trash.

Meaningful conflict, meaningful tragedy is the soul of drama.

Personally I would like to see more awesomeness, coolness and success. One of the reasons I loathe the Nolanverse "batman" is that he is a BINO who loses a lot and gives up and that isn't Batman but a guy who dresses up as a bat.

Could you see Bale go up against Clayface, the real Bane with Venom or dodging Darkseids Omega Beam? Of course not, because he is a whiny loser who gets defeated by dogs.

To quote the Joker: There is nothing "mere" about that mortal. That is Batman to me, not that Bale Batman in name only.

My main issue with the East Coast BoS is their bigotry.

Bigotry is irrational and is the product of a malfunctioning, illogical, irrational mind and the problem with irrationality is that people who believe in one irrational thing often believe in other irrational things as well.

That is why the BoS are so arrogant, prideful, incompetent and moronic.

If they just wanted to annilate all the feral ghouls and crazy supermutants and destroy the Institute but leave the Synths who are free of their influence alone they would have focused on rationals actual threats but instead they go all Warhammer 40K Space Marine on us.

I'm down with destroying all the ferals, the violently aggressive supermutans and rogue synths.

Just leave my John Hancock, Nick Valentine, Fawkes, Marcus, Raul, Harold, Curie and the others alone and we cool.

The beautiful thing is that the seed for these ideals were already planted in F3 and a lot of what they currenty do was well foreshadowed with the Midwestern chapter, Lord Ashur in the Pitt and the comments from the rank and file in F3.

Not every loyalist were as idealistic and keen on Elder Lyons vision, many questioned his decisions and weren't happy with it but they didn't mutiny.

Another clever bit of writing is that history is written by the survivors.

The majority of the Commonwealth BoS is made up of the Outcasts and their view of things shine brightly in the official histories and rather tellingly tend to gloss over such trifling issues such as if it weren't for Elder Lyons and his policies they wouldn't have their shiny new vertibirds, project Purity and Adams air force base.

He might mean well but that doesn't excuse his methods. And every other faction is trying to do "the right thing". And Brotherhood still hoard tech. They think they know what's best for others. But an energy gun is an energy gun and a sword is a sword. It's not the tool that's the problem, it's how it's used/misused. And people within the ranks can and will always become corrupt somewhere at some point in some time in some shape or fashion. Brotherhood. Enclave. Railroad. You get bad eggs in any and every group/faction and that's what the brotherhood fail to take into consideration. It's the side affect of power. They think "We're all together and beyond corruption and will never abuse these high tech, shiny things". Yea... and just how did the Enclave end up in the position they were in then? I'm sure they started "good" but fell to "bad". because of changes in the chain of command. And remember, he's CLEANSING the commenwealth. Another way of saying genocide. In this case of mutants and raiders. But more mutants then anything.

The only way to "protect" tech is to destroy it, not hoard it. And even then it's only until someone else invents it or something alike again. A temporary solution at best. Blow up a V2 rocket? More will be made. Because it's been designed already. Burn the designs? Someone still knows how. Kill them? Other people have already seen it can be done and will attempt to copy. No way of knowing who talked with who face to face and shared details either. Someone could always still be out there.

As for the rest, just listen to them. "Shoot mutants on sight. Humans humans humans. Mutants and synths don't matter". Again, good and bad eggs in any group/faction. It's never that black and white. That's why I consider them as bad as the enclave. They're doing the same thing thinking they're doing good, but I'm sure, if left to their own devices, they will eventually become as corrupt and start being even more xenophobic and shoot sane ghouls on sight just for existing. And then oh look, let's make another virus! All in the belief that "Only humans matter". I'm human. I don't think my species alone matters. It would like bashing furries. Or poly people. Or people into bdsn. Some choose to be that way, some are "just are". And yes, those aren't species, but the heart of the matter is difference altogether. Of race, of ways, of beliefs. NV had a human that sided with ghouls. Did he honestly belief he was one? Maybe. Maybe not. But he was with them noentheless. Perhaps he wanted to be lost in that illusion just because it's better to think "I'm one of them". Can mutants not do the same with humans? Do they HAVE to be like us to be accepted as they are provided they don't aim guns at us? Don't animals already share our homes? Ohh, pet deathclaw! Remember Marcus from 2? He wasn't all bad. Even if he did believe in the master and was somewhat xenophobic as well. But he never tried to forced you to become like him and say "You are my enemy, die!" Even had a good backstory about a Jacob paladin or something. A super mutant is more understanding then the Brotherhood. What does that say of the Brootherhood? Oh, and the deathclaw companion was nice too! Just realized, they missed a big opportunity with "Strong." Weak character. Weak reasons. Missed opportunity for such a good story to be added. Classic bad mutant for a companion. And the ghoul is bad too (If more likable)! Why? Why can't we have one good and one bad to help emphasize all that I just said in the game? Why are all mutant companions bad?

Now if they become less xenophobic and understand that there are GOOD mutants out there and that they're only buying time at best, maybe I can look at them a little less negatively. 'Till then, I want nothing to do with them. Be interesting to see what expansions/mods and any possible sequels bring to this (We're probably done at 4 though).

Just some food for thought.

I don't understand why your heart bleeds over this. The vast majority of the Super Mutant population is psychotically insane. They eat people!

Listen, SJW [censored] should be discussed elsewhere. Fallout isn't our world. [censored] is dangerous there. Your next morning is never guaranteed.

I don't think they are Enclave-ish though. They don't care what people do, just as long as they aren't using high-tech to do it. Cos that's ours... our... precioussss...

What i found ironic is *spoiler* if you go the Institute route, you record a message to be played out over DCS. Sounds scarily like the broadcasts President Eden used to make via his eyebots. Even has the same music

Not....really.

You actually get a script to read and basically get the opportunity to throw it out and state the Institute isn't going to interfere with the Commonwealth's personal freedoms and that they're going to offer help to rebuild it.

Which Shaun is irritated by since that means they have to live up to the promise.

It isn't just taking about super mutants. The issue is death to everything that isn't a pure enough human or organizations that support view that ghouls, synths, and/or other types of mutants (not inculding super mutants) or organizations/settlements that refusing give up technology and resources.

One of the BOS mission is staking down farmers for their food and others include killing off the railroad because they are either support synth independents or are synths. Another mission include killing Danse because they discover he is synth even thought he has provide BOS with unquestionable service.

You say that as if it's a bad thing. The wasteland would be alot safer without mutants and ferals.

What's the alternative, send them a strongly worded letter to stop killing people?

Killing Super mutants isn't a big deal on the East Coast since every one of them is an ass.

However, Ghouls exist in vast numbers as normal citizens. The only thing they have in common with Ferals is some biology quirks and looks. The Slog and Goodneighbor and YOUR OWN SETTLEMENTS can be an issue to the BoS.

As for Synths?

How big is the Institute? Is it a city? A Vault? We know Synths outnumber humans there but presumably it's several thousand people. The BoS wants all those Synths dead.

Ghouls are the Institute.

The REAL Institute.

They're the guys who know [censored] about democracy, Pre-War technology, history, and other stuff.

kill the Ghouls and you destroy all knowledge.

Are you paying attention readers? It isn't just "The bad mutants that eat people". It's "The mutants that don't want to eat our flesh".

Though, wherever civilized ghouls eat flesh I don't know. But if they do they can eat raider flesh? Everyone wins! 'Cept the raiders. XD