PLEASE READ! I know this topic is everywhere, so sorry for saturating, but I'm curious to see how it pans out as a poll. I realize this is just one forum and perhaps a poll is inappropriate but I'll give it a try. As for discussion I'd like to know what parts of the following people disagree with as I think I've made sense, if you don't care: that's great, vote "I Don't Care" and then demonstrate how much you don't care by not typing anything haha:

I have somewhat gotten used to the idea of having to role-play around the heterosixual relationship provided it doesn't restrict you afterwards and that there are same six relationships for the protagonist AFTER the intro, as well as enough LGBT characters and couples in the world to make it representative of actual human existence (so 3 or 4? would like to see more personally, but I get it). I've had some fun thinking of what this relationship could be and just hope that the voiced protagonist and limited conversation options don't limit it too much. Role-playing to imagine things that aren't there is a lot easier than role-playing to UNIMAGINE things that ARE there, which is why the voice worries me. But of course as soon as I get excited someone will say something stupid to get me mad again like "the writer's want to tell a better story and add emotion by adding some heteronormative wife and child to manipulate your emotions which are apparently all the same," which I think is B.S. to begin with as the same emotions would exist in a same six relationship and appeal to a wider audience, and adding one would be as simple as:

• hiring two new voice actors to play their (likely very) small roles
• (optional) writing/lore about gay acceptance or lack thereof (wouldn't everyone like more lore period?), although they could leave it as vague as they wanted to, although that might be disappointing at least they tried
• (optional) reprogramming how the baby is generated: from one spouse (surrogate or previous relationship), both spouses (surrogate was relative of other parent or advanced technology) or random (adopted)
• and a "switch spouse" button in character creation instead of just a "gender" button

And no, the inclusion of super mutants, the baby (as I've stated above), a 50s art style/cultural influence (gay relationships and families existed regardless), FPS elements, homophobes (who will probably criticize everything anyway), SJWs (who will probably criticize everything anyway), teenage boys who fetishize lisbians, people with physical or mental disabilities (which will very likely be included, as in nearly all post apocalypse stories and there are androids hello), pixels, lack of funds/time (you write them just like any other character and also they've had a LOT of time and money), etc. should not inhibit the developers from including LGBT people. I think those points have already been exhausted and the game's not Mario Party or Call of Duty, it aspires for a lot more sophistication than that!

Simply, I want a game that has good writing and mechanics, which means a diverse range of great characters. I don't feel there should be anything wrong with this, but yes I also want to feel included, I realize sixual orientation is just one aspect of a person but it does affect everyone. And yeah less than 10% of people are LGBT in the world, but EVERYONE seems to talk about it. I'm not asking for special treatment for LGBT people, I'm just asking for as much inclusion as they are offered in biology and society. Diversity can enrich a world, make it believable and also include/appease a considerable percentage of the company's income/fan base (well over a million dollars worth). Now I almost feel like this is a list of demands but I have another worry: gay characters shouldn't exist solely for sympathy (as a tortured soul), creepiness (as a villain) or humour (as a camp/flamboyant person, unless they're John Waters style funny which might actually be Fallout appropriate for a quest or DLC ha, a gang of the "filthiest people alive!"). They CAN be those things, just not exclusively, and the protagonist should have the option of being gay and if lucky find a decent hetero or non-hetero partner to spend time with at the end of the world.

I think that recaps many of the arguments for same-six relationships at start and rebuts many of the arguments against. Let me know.

I do not have a problem with either. As long as the character is relate-able in a way, I can get immersed in it.

No not if it sacrifices story

I'm neutral on that matter, I guess?

Never really cared on that matter... If you want, so be it, but if you don't want it, so be it...

Hey, it's free.

What this guy said.

Also - absolutely NOTHING prevents your character from being a bi-sixual in a marriage, or changing sixual orientation later.

Please elaborate how it could sacrifice story? I think I've made a pretty good argument how the "option" could/would not sacrifice story.

I strongly disagree because I feel it's the writer's decision to tell a story, and not cater to the whims of different communities. If the writer wants to tell a story about a heterosixual couple, so be it. With that said, whether the two individuals of the relationship are bisixual remains to be seen. That's open to interpretation and players can take that information into whatever direction they want when the game opens up.

Edit ----

I feel I should add, if the game facilitates flirt options for same-six dialogue throughout the game (Confirmed bachelor/Black Widow) then that's fine, I don't really care. If Bethesda chooses, for future titles, to have an 'open' start sequence for the PC, like what is described in the OP, so be it. That's Bethesda's decision and I respect that.

I'm thinking more from an opportunity-cost perspective personally. So it doesent need to be story. But any one thing added means something else not being added?

I'd just like to clarify that I'm not opposed to your idea. But one thing that strikes me is that the baby might be important to the story. It would be difficult to implement because if adoption is used or the opening story is changed much - they might need to change a LOT of stuff further in the game as well.

You realise that bisixuality and homosixuality are as different and distinct as homosixuality and heterosixuality right?

I think they have enough time and money and I really don't see how the child's link to the protagonist would at all be affected by the gender of their diseased spouse. If the child is adopted they may still want to meet their adopted parents, but adoption is not even necessary, the child could still be one of the parents' or even both of the parents'. I suppose the mother might be coming back too though which would require more voice acting and resources.

Except that you can choose to be in a heterosixual or homosixual relationship exclusively.

Sure I can. But why would I?

Wouldn't being bisixual and exclusively dating your own gender be the same thing as being homosixual?

Maybe they keep this option hidden, like the skills

Of course it isn't. A bisixual will be attracted to both genders regardless of who they're currently in a relationship with.

A homosixual will only be attracted to their own gender.

I prefer no relationships at all. I want a generic prisoner without past, like Oblivion or Skyrim.

Since its not a option, sure, why not?

My vote is agree.

Hard to believe they have enough time to change one sequence so a group doesn't get hot and buttered. And if what you say is true, and there are sequences where the wife and child survived vault 111 (doubtful given what we know), that's more development time.

You are both right. I realize I'm probably not supposed the moderate the discussion but what I am wondering is what aspects of the story do you think REQUIRE a heterosixual relationship that couldn't be worked around from the information that we currently know which is admittedly low.

Doesn't that contradict your earlier point?

Anyway... about Fallout 4...

lets say you are a bisixual woman who only dates women. Is that not the same as a being a lisbian?

Butt (intentional misspell) you are right, lets not draw this off-topic issue out longer.

Personally, I'm torn on this. On the one hand, Bethesda has the right to make the game they want to make, and that includes making a character you play as the character they want you to play as. Age, race, personality, looks, gender, religion, all of that can totally be dictated by Bethesda if they want to, and if they feel it better serves the story they want to tell, then they should probably do it.

That said.

I do think it's counter intuitive for a company like Bethesda, which uses its character creation as a selling point for their games, to not be as inclusive as they can. If the name of the game is make the character you want, it seems odd that sixual orientation is the thing that gets determined for you. And I don't see why people are bothered by the fact that this is an issue for some people. Going "It doesn't bother me so it doesn't shouldn't be an issue to you" just comes off as petty and childish, not to mention unable/unwilling to actually discuss the issue with the people who care about it.

I'm straight, but I've played as gay characters of both genders in the past, and I wouldn't have a problem with a game "forcing" me to play as a gay character because it serves the game's narrative, just like I don't mind having to play as a member of this couple if it serves the game's narrative.

For me, the question is less "Why can't I play a gay man or a lisbian from the start," but "Why do we have to be a married parent?" I'm not bothered by it. In fact, I'm definitely going to be playing as a woman first because the female Sole Survivor strikes me as inherently more interesting than the male one (not to mention her voice acting doesn't sound like a robot). But my question is what purpose do the spouse and baby serve? Are they just something to emotionally manipulate the player and make the character sad at the beginning because they died? If so, why not play as the child, or start the game at your sibling's wedding, with the nuptial bliss being interrupted by atomic warfare and everybody you know and love dying? If it has to be your child because the kid is going to be the antagonist in the end like some people are suspecting... That's a really lame twist.

As a writer, I'm less interested in the restrictions that Bethesda's placed on the player themselves and more interested in what purpose those restrictions serve.

Edit: To add to the above, the restrictions that existed in previous games existed to serve the story Bethesda wanted to tell. Skyrim was about a hero of prophecy, so you were that hero. Morrowind was about Azura getting back at the Tribunal, and so you served as the instrument of that revenge in the form of the reincarnation of the person they betrayed. Fallout 3 was about obligations to family. James forsook Project Purity out of an obligation to keep you safe after losing his wife. He then reattempts Project Purity out of obligation to his wife once again. You're left with the decision of whether or not you'll show the same sense of duty to your bloodline, risking your life for your parents' legacy. In New Vegas, you were the Courier because that needed to happen to put you in the situation the game opens up in.

In all the above examples, the restrictions exist to serve the story. So, if the story is served by having you be a spouse and parent, that's fine with me. But I'm worried about the actual content of the story if that's the reason those restrictions are in place.

Exactly, unlikely, so it should be very easy to implement! And that "group," however small it is, makes up for millions of dollars of revenue. We'd like to feel included. It really wouldn't be that much development time or money and the "group" is large enough to warrant it.

Theres no fault with your reasoning imo. And like I said I'm not opposed to your suggestion. I just wanted to provide possible reasons for why it might not work. Not sure if they will change this at this point in development but it wouldn't hurt to try asking Bethesda through Twitter or E-mail I guess?

This is a new account as I lost my old e-mail, but I'm pretty sure Bethesda never replied much (if at all) on the forums. Not sure if they even read these or if the mods actually pass suggestions on, so if you really want this you could try different mediums to reach them

No. Because I'd still check men out and would feel open to dating the right man if one came along.

The point is one's sixuality is not determined by the gender of the person they are currently in a relationship with or have ever had relationships with for that matter.

I voted slightly disagree cuz I'm not sure it's kosher with the 1950's throwback thing Fallout's got going on. Then again it's NOT the 1950's. What I DO want is for the option to be there once you're in the Wasteland.

Also honestly any resource related argument for why something isn't possible or would be difficult is gonna get a huge ass eyeroll from me. This is a game where they had a single companion record close to a thousand words just so that he could mention your name a few times in the game. Resources isn't an issue.

I wish I had your optimism for software development time-tables, truly.

For future titles I really hope that minority groups like the LGBT community will be weighed in when it comes to opening sequences. But for Fallout 4, that ship has sailed.