Poll: What Would You Like To See : Othor Games

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:52 am

What? Are you backpeddeling now? I was focusing on the part i bolded. where you said that

he isn't suddenly a casual player now. He's still "hardcoe," he's just not in a clan.

And now you are saying he is the complete oposite? From being a hardcoe player without a clan he is suddenly a casual clan member? How does that work?

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:01 am

You are seriously argueing over the definition of "casual" when all this is about context? Maybe I should be asking you about your definition of "hardcoe gamer"? Is spending 12 hours aday enough to be considered hardcoe or do you need to be a min-maxer too? =S

I think you are reading too much into that line by OP. He just wanted to differ the (1*) player from the guys that want to do tournaments and scheduled fights against other clans. And he happpened to use "casual" as a contrast to tournament player.

Your responses allways come off a bit rigid imo Horse. Lighten up, don't take everything so seriously =).

PS. (1*) What should you call the player that doesn't participate in clan tournaments? Horse at least object against using casual in this manner... you can't really use regular either incase clantourny plaers are more commin... I can't really come up with a simple definition for that kind of player. DS.

Thank you see most peopl understood what I meant by the line and I know your not being paid to discuss on he forums so quite being so instagative and anol about everything everyone is here because they want to know or want to talk about brink no need fo the attitude :foodndrink:

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:26 pm

Clans do not define someones overall gaming habits. They are a result or by-product of gaming, not the defining factor of a person's attitude towards gaming itself. Again, using textbook definitions, let's see what "hardcoe" is:

1. Intensely loyal; die-hard: a hard-core secessionist; a hard-core golfer.
2. Stubbornly resistant to improvement or change: hard-core poverty.
3. Extremely graphic or explicit: hard-core pormography.

In this case, the most accurate definition is the first one, "Intensely loyal; die-hard" - Someone who plays a game, or games in general, everyday and/or plays for long periods of time, or perhaps someone who isn't playing "just for fun," or playing to "unwind." - it is more than that to them. Whether or not they are in a clan does not change this aspect - It is behavior associated between the individual and the game or gaming as a whole. A Clan is a separate entity, and thus can constitute separate habits and traits among the individual. A player may love playing a certain game, or gaming in general and decides to join a clan. After joining, he discovers that it's not really for him and he would rather play by his own rules, without the guidelines and commitment of a clan, or whatever the reason, and either continues to be a member half-heartily or leaves the clan altogether. He still exhibits the same behavior and traits towards the game; he is "hardcoe," he just prefers to not belong to a clan.

Now, let's look at what you are asking. You quote me saying this:

"he isn't suddenly a casual player now. He's still "hardcoe," he's just not in a clan."

and then ask:

And now you are saying he is the complete oposite? From being a hardcoe player without a clan he is suddenly a casual clan member? How does that work?

First off, when you mention "he is suddenly a casual clan member," what are talking about? In the line you quoted, where do you see me mention anything about being a casual clan member or a clan member in general? I mention the term "casual player," and I talk about not being in a clan, but nowhere can I find mention about this elusive, "casual clan member." If you want me to address your question in general about how a player can go from being a hardcoe player without a clan, to being a casual clan member, I will, but I cannot answer this based on the quote you used, since they seem to have nothing in relevance with each other.

So, a player that is a "hardcoe" player without a clan (or in other words, just a "hardcoe" player) can suddenly become a casual clan member, when he decides to join a clan, and discovers that it's not for him. Now let's break this down -
A "hardcoe" player, (using a definition for hardcoe - Intensely loyal; die-hard: in this case, for a game or gaming in general) can suddenly become a "casual" clan member (using a definition for casual - Showing little interest or concern; nonchalant: in this case, for the clan) and finds out it's not for him, thus he remains "loyal" or "die-hard" towards the game, but not to the clan, and instead displays "little interest or concern" for it - The game and the clan are 2 separate things, and here is where you can bring my quote in:

"he isn't suddenly a casual player now. He's still "hardcoe," he's just not in a clan."

Joining or not joining a clan does not change a player's skill or passion towards a game. Clans are nothing more than an optional feature - a club or clique, existing for various reasons, that may or may not be supported by the publisher/developer.

If having a passion for motorcycles is gaming, Hells Angel would be a clan - your love of motorcycles remains in tact whether you join or not, although leaving this "clan" (Hells Angels) is a bit harder than leaving one online.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:44 am

You completly lost track of the conversation Horse....

First quote from you:

he isn't suddenly a casual player now. He's still "hardcoe," he's just not in a clan.

My response:

By the dictionaries' second definition "unpremeditated" he would be considered "casual".

To this response you say:

Which I explained here

you're right, he would be considered casual - a casual clan member, which I already explained.

This doesn't explain it at all and is pretty much a 180 turn in my book.
I say

What? Are you backpeddeling now? I was focusing on the part i bolded. where you said that: And now you are saying he is the complete oposite? From being a hardcoe player without a clan he is suddenly a casual clan member? How does that work?

You seem to think that the reusaage of the first quote is acctually the post above mine and that I'm responding to that qoute.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:48 pm

Since you seem to have problems following my usual method of posting i decided to make the recap post above and the reply to this post seperately.

Clans do not define someones overall gaming habits. They are a result or by-product of gaming, not the defining factor of a person's attitude towards gaming itself. Again, using textbook definitions, let's see what "hardcoe" is:

1. Intensely loyal; die-hard: a hard-core secessionist; a hard-core golfer.
2. Stubbornly resistant to improvement or change: hard-core poverty.
3. Extremely graphic or explicit: hard-core pormography.

In this case, the most accurate definition is the first one, "Intensely loyal; die-hard" - Someone who plays a game, or games in general, everyday and/or plays for long periods of time, or perhaps someone who isn't playing "just for fun," or playing to "unwind." - it is more than that to them. Whether or not they are in a clan does not change this aspect - It is behavior associated between the individual and the game or gaming as a whole. A Clan is a separate entity, and thus can constitute separate habits and traits among the individual. A player may love playing a certain game, or gaming in general and decides to join a clan. After joining, he discovers that it's not really for him and he would rather play by his own rules, without the guidelines and commitment of a clan, or whatever the reason, and either continues to be a member half-heartily or leaves the clan altogether. He still exhibits the same behavior and traits towards the game; he is "hardcoe," he just prefers to not belong to a clan.

Never mind the definitions, you completly missed my point and we already established you are a very litteral textbook kind of person that doesn't understand contrasts. It's done and over we don't need to drag it up again.

Now, let's look at what you are asking. You quote me saying this:

and then ask:

First off, when you mention "he is suddenly a casual clan member," what are talking about? In the line you quoted, where do you see me mention anything about being a casual clan member or a clan member in general? I mention the term "casual player," and I talk about not being in a clan, but nowhere can I find mention about this elusive, "casual clan member." If you want me to address your question in general about how a player can go from being a hardcoe player without a clan, to being a casual clan member, I will, but I cannot answer this based on the quote you used, since they seem to have nothing in relevance with each other.

The mythological post where you mention this casual clan member :http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1103730-poll-what-would-you-like-to-see/page__st__20__p__16152012&#entry16152012
And by the way, I never had any question like that. You lost track of the conversation in post 25.

So, a player that is a "hardcoe" player without a clan (or in other words, just a "hardcoe" player) can suddenly become a casual clan member, when he decides to join a clan, and discovers that it's not for him. Now let's break this down -
A "hardcoe" player, (using a definition for hardcoe - Intensely loyal; die-hard: in this case, for a game or gaming in general) can suddenly become a "casual" clan member (using a definition for casual - Showing little interest or concern; nonchalant: in this case, for the clan) and finds out it's not for him, thus he remains "loyal" or "die-hard" towards the game, but not to the clan, and instead displays "little interest or concern" for it - The game and the clan are 2 separate things, and here is where you can bring my quote in:

Joining or not joining a clan does not change a player's skill or passion towards a game. Clans are nothing more than an optional feature - a club or clique, existing for various reasons, that may or may not be supported by the publisher/developer.

If having a passion for motorcycles is gaming, Hells Angel would be a clan - your love of motorcycles remains in tact whether you join or not, although leaving this "clan" (Hells Angels) is a bit harder than leaving one online.

The post I quoted was concerning a hardcoe player leaving a clan, where you claimed he was still hardcoe after leaving it... As per the second definition of the word "casual" you posted he would be "casual" as his gaming would be "unpremeditated" (as in no preplanned games where one clan plays against another clan). This was a jab at you being litteral in your understanding of a word. It doesn't make him any less hardcoe by your definitions but he would be "casual" by them none the less.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:16 pm

First off, point out to me where I say one thing and then say the complete opposite.
Second, in response to these quotes:

Me:

he isn't suddenly a casual player now. He's still "hardcoe," he's just not in a clan.

your response:

By the dictionaries' second definition "unpremeditated" he would be considered "casual".

I can play the "pick and choose game" as well, and go with this definition - Showing little interest or concern; nonchalant: which explains how you can be a " hardcoe" player and a "casual" clan member. If you want to use your original definition, "unpremeditated," that would still explain it regardless, because whether or not he thought it through, still relates strictly to the clan and not to the overall game.

Guy likes game.
Guy plays game a lot.
Guy contemplates joining a clan.
Guy measures pros and cons.
Guy decides to join clan.
Clan is not what guy wanted.
Guy leaves clan and still likes and plays game a lot.

After that, your definition of "unpremeditated" is all semantics.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:43 am

I can play the "pick and choose game" as well,

Awesome, since that is exactly what I asked from you the very first time and got that dictionary copy-paste stuff instead. But the fact that you want to play this game means you understand my point. We have different understandings of a word means, even if we look it up in a dictionary, depending on the context.

and go with this definition - Showing little interest or concern; nonchalant: which explains how you can be a " hardcoe" player and a "casual" clan member. If you want to use your original definition, "unpremeditated," that would still explain it regardless, because whether or not he thought it through, still relates strictly to the clan and not to the overall game.

Guy likes game.
Guy plays game a lot.
Guy contemplates joining a clan.
Guy measures pros and cons.
Guy decides to join clan.
Clan is not what guy wanted.
Guy leaves clan and still likes and plays game a lot.

After that, your definition of "unpremeditated" is all semantics.

Dude. You are still missing my point. This whole thing was a jab at your litteral interpretations of a word and you just tangled yourself in deeper all the time. I guess you skimmed the post where jokeing with you and completly missed what i meant.
For the record: I have never said they can't be both casual and hardcoe at the same time.

This all started because you were "anol" (as you say) about the OP use of the word "casual". In this context the word casual was used as a contrast to clan players as there isn't really any other good way to define them (than loosly applying the second definition of "casual").
Sure he could have phrased it differently but everyone understood what he meant anyway. (Except for the overly litteral H0RSE.)

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:47 am

Awesome, since that is exactly what I asked from you the very first time and got that dictionary copy-paste stuff instead. But the fact that you want to play this game means you understand my point. We have different understandings of a word means, even if we look it up in a dictionary, depending on the context.

using casual in the way he did was not simply about "context." Using the word "casual" in the sense that he did, was like he didn't even know what the word meant, or he purposely used it in a derogatory way. You even said it yourself:

the OP use of the word "casual". In this context the word casual was used as a contrast to clan players as there isn't really any other good way to define them (than loosly applying the second definition of "casual").

that's pretty [censored] loosely - like wearing pants 5 sizes to big loose. Wouldn't it make more sense instead of TC saying "It's a nice component but I'm a casual player," to simply say, "It's a nice component but I'm not into clans?" Simple, effective, and to the point. He also says what he means wording it this way and there's nothing to misinterpret. If you can't think of a good word to define something, perhaps you shouldn't try, and instead state what it is you're trying to say, like I did above.

I guess you skimmed the post where jokeing with you and completly missed what i meant.

point this "joke" out.

This all started because you were "anol" (as you say) about the OP use of the word "casual".

What's your point? Because I have certain traits and pick up on things differently, that I'm the bad guy?

Sure he could have phrased it differently but everyone understood what he meant anyway. (Except for the overly litteral H0RSE.)

And there you go attacking me again. Sorry I don't have all the quirks and traits that you would like me to have. Sorry I see and interpret things differently. Thanks for the anxiety.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:19 am

using casual in the way he did was not simply about "context." Using the word "casual" in the sense that he did, was like he didn't even know what the word meant, or he purposely used it in a derogatory way. You even said it yourself:

that's pretty [censored] loosely - like wearing pants 5 sizes to big loose. Wouldn't it make more sense instead of TC saying "It's a nice component but I'm a casual player," to simply say, "It's a nice component but I'm not into clans?" Simple, effective, and to the point. He also says what he means wording it this way and there's nothing to misinterpret. If you can't think of a good word to define something, perhaps you shouldn't try, and instead state what it is you're trying to say, like I did above.

As I already said he could have phrased it differently, but what was the point? He's understood anyway and most ppl can't imagine someone nitpicking over the definition of casual in that manner.
I challange you to define

point this "joke" out.

My bad reading back i forgot the emoticons in the joke and it was too subtle. But it got pretty messy since you responded to things I didn't say.
It's post #24

What's your point? Because I have certain traits and pick up on things differently, that I'm the bad guy?

No, not really. It did feel like you were attacking the OP over something so banol as your definition of casual being different from his imo.

You know what, I'm going to challange you to to come up with a way to define ppl that "does not play in a clan" as players. If there is a terminology that we can use without having to write out "does not play in a clan" everytime I think we will all be happier.

And there you go attacking me again. Sorry I don't have all the quirks and traits that you would like me to have. Sorry I see and interpret things differently. Thanks for the anxiety.

I'm sorry you felt attacked. I could probably worded that differently or used a smiley. I was just trying (in my sleep depraved state) to really illuminate that you are so litterall. I guess it wasn't really needed. I appoligize for that last unneeded comment within the parenthesis.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:21 pm

Anyways guys lets get back onto topic of the OP. What things would you like to see implimented into Brink for clans any ideas besides the general ones I listed in the poll?

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:31 pm

I can tell you that Clan Leaderboards, Clan Challenges, Tournaments for Clans and Special Clothing Unlocks Through Clans, are all very unlikely to be supported.

They made the decision to NOT have global leaderboards in Brink because of their distracting, selfish nature:

“I'm really sensitive to the dangers of introducing things in the game that people can obsess over, to the point of ruining the game for others, and we're very careful to identify and avoid them. For instance, global leaderboards for stuff like k/d ratios and what not: bad idea, since they disccourage players from taking chances and actually doing what's necessary to help. So bam! Not having them. I know other games do, and they're kind of standard, but screw it, not the right thing for Brink."
- Richard Ham

I don't think they would "make an exception" just for clans, especially since Brink is supposed to be merging the gap between SP and MP, not focusing on the "hardcoe competitive audience."

- Tournaments for clans is something that would most likely be handled from an outside source, like Gamebattles, Clanbase, MLG or a similiar site.
- Special clothing unlocks just seems like a no-brainer NOT to have them. The developers want players to be able to create the look they want for their character, regardless if they play on or offline. They want to make the game accessible to as many players as possible and I don't think that includes having "clan only" unlockables....
- Being Able To Design Clan Logos could be feasible, seeing that designing a logo doesn't necessarily have to be tied to a clan.
- Clan Match Replays would most likely come in the form of recordable demos - which is usually a PC only feature. In PC clan matches, (I never played a console clan match) I think it is mandatory to have the match recorded.

Basically, clans are the minority - the optional feature, and games don't typically come with a plethora of options and support for them, unless it is specifically targeted towards them.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:21 am

I'm sure the other games (Killzone 3, Black ops,Halo Reach, and others) Will support the clan functions much more then Brink.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:29 pm

I can tell you that Clan Leaderboards, Clan Challenges, Tournaments for Clans and Special Clothing Unlocks Through Clans, are all very unlikely to be supported.

just because you're in a clan doesnt mean that you should recieve special treatment

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:40 pm

just because you're in a clan doesnt mean that you should recieve special treatment

"Special treatment" being extra options meant specifically for clans? I vote that clans SHOULD get that stuff. Seeing as im the leader of a clan (which btw, is now open for all factions and being redesigned to fit that), i would love if we could have leader boards and "clan wars". Not to mention clan logos and such. Granted, I doubt SD will implement leader boards or crap like that, but hopefully clan customizable patches or clan tags. Anything to identify a clan.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:35 pm

"Special treatment" being extra options meant specifically for clans? I vote that clans SHOULD get that stuff. Seeing as im the leader of a clan (which btw, is now open for all factions and being redesigned to fit that), i would love if we could have leader boards and "clan wars". Not to mention clan logos and such. Granted, I doubt SD will implement leader boards or crap like that, but hopefully clan customizable patches or clan tags. Anything to identify a clan.

Calm down boss man.
Although the question come to mind why a clan would have special treatment over regular players? The game funtions on team game play so it's not really important if the players know each other or not. The outcome will be if the two sides can work well enough together to beat the other. Also would a clan member keep the same special treatment should he/she play single player? Do the bots not have the right to be in a clan?

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:06 am

"Special treatment" being extra options meant specifically for clans? I vote that clans SHOULD get that stuff. Seeing as im the leader of a clan (which btw, is now open for all factions and being redesigned to fit that), i would love if we could have leader boards and "clan wars". Not to mention clan logos and such. Granted, I doubt SD will implement leader boards or crap like that, but hopefully clan customizable patches or clan tags. Anything to identify a clan.

im pretty sure there will be clan tags. also you can all change the colors of your clothing to match each other like what wedgwood said in the first customization video. as for extra items and crap like that, no. if you want to play in a tournament, organize one yourself

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:30 pm

Calm down boss man.
Although the question come to mind why a clan would have special treatment over regular players? The game funtions on team game play so it's not really important if the players know each other or not. The outcome will be if the two sides can work well enough together to beat the other. Also would a clan member keep the same special treatment should he/she play single player? Do the bots not have the right to be in a clan?

Ehhh...i guess clan leader boards would be unfair. But like, clan tags and custom patches could be used for clans and for people by themselves. Clan wars can set up outside of brink, like horse said. I just want something to be able to identify clans.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:33 am

Ehhh...i guess clan leader boards would be unfair. But like, clan tags and custom patches could be used for clans and for people by themselves. Clan wars can set up outside of brink, like horse said. I just want something to be able to identify clans.

That sounds more understandable being able to make a custum tag or badge. I thought that was a cool funtion in AoT, so if the company is planing to make a surper cusomized thing it might be an interesting touch.

BUt as reptar said, the least we can do is make matching colors.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:17 pm

just because you're in a clan doesnt mean that you should recieve special treatment

Its not special treatment its just more options for players oriented to clan play. I don't see the harm in having things to work towards in clans just like I am sure they will have things you can only get from playing mp online. Also what is the harm in having clan ranking and clan matches? That jsut gives people a more competitive level to play on for those who want to test there skills agaisnt other players who are organized and working together there isnt anything wrong with that.

And Horse you seem like the Biased one turning down anything to do with clans why cant you quite knocking it and support it for those players who actually want to play that way you dont see anyone knocking you wanting to be a lone wolf who doesnt care about anything but himself.

Also what is the point of them having clans in Brink if there isnt any support for them? Thats just another half ***** job because they didnt want to put the work in putting clan support like all the other half ***** shooters. If your going to put clans in your game atleast have something for those people to do ex, clan matches or dont put them in your game at all just make a party system to group up with friends.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:18 am

Ehhh...i guess clan leader boards would be unfair. But like, clan tags and custom patches could be used for clans and for people by themselves. Clan wars can set up outside of brink, like horse said. I just want something to be able to identify clans.

Why would a clan leaderboard be uinfair? Think about it what is the point of having clans in the game if there isnt any meaning to them and you cant try and challenge other clans to try and get your clan to the top?

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:45 pm

Why would a clan leaderboard be uinfair? Think about it what is the point of having clans in the game if there isnt any meaning to them and you cant try and challenge other clans to try and get your clan to the top?

If regular players can have leaderboards, it isnt right to give clans them. People dont wanna have to join a clan just to be on leaderboards, when it wouldnt even be them, it would be the clans. I think ill go with ClanBattles for my clan whenever Brink launches.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:50 pm

just like I am sure they will have things you can only get from playing mp online.

I don't think there will be, and I don't know why you would think that. The whole basis of the game is to remove the barriers of SP and MP - make everything available to everyone.

Also what is the harm in having clan ranking and clan matches?

This is what third party sites are for

That jsut gives people a more competitive level to play on for those who want to test there skills agaisnt other players who are organized and working together there isnt anything wrong with that.

Well, clan matches are simple - join a clan, meet another clan, play them - you don't need "in-game support" for that.

And Horse you seem like the Biased one turning down anything to do with clans

First off, I used to be into the clan scene, so why would I bash it, and second It has nothing to do with me being "biased," and more to do with being practical. I am a realist, and I see the most practical thing SD doing, is not having all these bells and whistles features for clans.

why cant you quite knocking it and support it for those players who actually want to play that way

Like I said, I'm a realist - sorry for my lack of candy coated ideas, and rainbow filled opinions.

you dont see anyone knocking you wanting to be a lone wolf who doesnt care about anything but himself.

This is just ignorant and lack of information on your part. If you paid attention to my posts you would see that I am a Medic player - arguably the single most team-oriented class in any class based shooter. I love the fact that you can help out your team, even be the MVP of a match, without killing anyone or firing a single shot. Lone wolf, HA! I'm about as "lone wolf" as the Brady Bunch.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:29 am

If regular players can have leaderboards, it isnt right to give clans them. People dont wanna have to join a clan just to be on leaderboards, when it wouldnt even be them, it would be the clans. I think ill go with ClanBattles for my clan whenever Brink launches.

That is sort of true but the reason they did not want to put individual leaderbaords is to keep people from not taking risks and not helping there team to pad there K/D in clans people are working together as one to do whatever is neccesary for there clan to win so that wouldnt be an issue so I dont see why it would be a problem.

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:15 pm

in clans people are working together as one to do whatever is neccesary for there clan to win so that wouldnt be an issue so I dont see why it would be a problem.

lol, you are so naive. Yes, GOOD clans will do that, but a lot of people join clans and a lot of clans in general are in it for the "power trip."

» Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:02 pm

I don't think there will be, and I don't know why you would think that. The whole basis of the game is to remove the barriers of SP and MP - make everything available to everyone.

This is what third party sites are for

Well, clan matches are simple - join a clan, meet another clan, play them - you don't need "in-game support" for that.

First off, I used to be into the clan scene, so why would I bash it, and second It has nothing to do with me being "biased," and more to do with being practical. I am a realist, and I see the most practical thing SD doing, is not having all these bells and whistles features for clans.

Like I said, I'm a realist - sorry for my lack of candy coated ideas, and rainbow filled opinions.

This is just ignorant and lack of information on your part. If you paid attention to my posts you would see that I am a Medic player - arguably the single most team-oriented class in any class based shooter. I love the fact that you can help out your team, even be the MVP of a match, without killing anyone or firing a single shot. Lone wolf, HA! I'm about as "lone wolf" as the Brady Bunch.

Because just like every FPS has trophies for completing certain things online they usual have some sort of content you can only get online as well maybe they wont but i'd be suprised.

You may not need in game support but it makes things easier for clans that do not have the time to go onto MLG and setup matches and make account and track everything through there. In game support makes things more conveniant for those people as well as maybe even getting players who were never interested in clans to try it out because of the convenience of having it at your finger tips.

And like you said if SD is trying to remove barriers then why not have support in there game for all walks of life so everyone can have a good time and enjoy it the way they want to play. Not to mention you cant argue clan support extends the life of a game because after leveling up, getting all ablilities, all trophies ect the game can get a little stail having something to work towards and another level to play on keeps alot of people playing longer instead of moving on to the next game ensuring they are around for DLC to be purchased.

And just because you play a support class does not mean you are a team oriented player alot of people play as medics jsut to get exp from reviving and healing other players simple as that.