the majority of the people that buy games don't even know how to install mods ^^

not to mention that the unofficial patches are mostly supported in English, so you can cut all the people that play the game in another language

out of the 10+ million people that play Bethesda's games, there are maybe a few 100 thousands that use any unofficial patches or mods

that's how every single company works... not only Bethesda

we are just lucky that Bethesda actually supports mods, so that we can fix the bugs that we want fixed... other games don't have that

I still can't really play Witcher 3, even after 10+ official patches...

simply because there are no mod tools, that may have fixed my tessellation issues with the game

There are a lot of games, where you don't notice any bugs... but those games are mostly short and linear

open world games, on the other hand, all have their problems and bugs, that a community might be able to fix, if there were mod tools

I've never got the hype around playing a modded game, and much prefer to play the creative vision set out by developers. I enjoy base Skyrim immensely, and I doubt very much I'll be picking up any mods for FO4 when they come out on console.

DLC is an entirely different matter for me, as it allows the devs to stretch their wings creatively in a different direction but still in line with their core vision. I enjoy DLC for that reason.

Way I see it dlc and mods work hand in glove. DLC adds new systems and mechanics and mods expand on it.

Problem is when they do crappy dlc like horse armor, or heathfire. Sure, mods can be made that make those actually neat to use.. But, when you would never have bought that dlc except for mods using it.. it leaves a bad taste in ones mouth.

As an XBox One player, I'm going to have to weigh in on this conversation because I believe it can be detrimental to the experience of the game.

This is only an opinion, though facts will be presented.

A couple of weeks ago, I saw a video which compared the visuals between PC, PS4, and X1. Of course, the PC version was stellar, but that was to be expected.

Between the two consoles, however, the visual difference was striking, as the PS4 clearly beat the crap out of the X1. Makes sense, since it's well known 20% of the X1 is dedicated to Microsoft's idiotic app system.

What makes this troubling is the use of mods. While I'd love to see them on the X1, it's just not going to happen. If the vanilla game can't even render at full performance, mods will only make this situation worse.

One of the visuals I saw jarred me to complete surprise, and frankly, anger. It showed a general area with trees and bushes, and downtown in the background. On the PC, everything was crystal clear, beautiful. The PS4 rendered things nicely, though it took out quite a bit of foliage (mostly bushes).

On the XBox One, foliage was missing. Some trees were also missing. But the most insulting part of the visual was the city in the background was masked out by a fog-looking pile of crap.

I didn't even know this was an issue until I saw the video, but as they say, once you see it, you can't "unsee" it, and yes, as I play, I now notice this lack of rendering everywhere. It's disheartening.

That's why I don't believe mods are going to help, but rather, make things worse. If the vanilla game can't be rendered, then mods most assuredly can't be rendered, at least without more sacrifice to the vanilla display. Not to be rude, but I sure as hell don't want to play a game covered in fog just to get some better resolution to items like rain or weapons.

If Microsoft rids their idiotic position on controlling everything via apps, then I'd be first in line to say "Bring on the mods!" As it stands, I'm not confident they can be delivered without taking away the experience I'm now used to.

And I'm okay with that. FO4 may have quirky issues, but those can only be addressed by Bethesda. If the studio can bring mods without further destroying what the console is doing, then I'll definitely consider using them, especially that mod that made the nuclear storms even more terrifying (I suppose I'm one of the few that still loves them).

So, that's my opinion. Feel free to disagree, but please don't hash on them. That video was fact, and so I'm basing my opinion on that video.

PC folks are more than confident with mods, and I don't think Bethesda relies on players for that. Quite the opposite. Bethesda encourages them. If they tried to do everything modders can do, FO4 wouldn't come out for another what, 20 years or so? Joking aside, it would have definitely made release longer and Bethesda is one of the few companies left who don't complain about gamers using their IP to make their vanilla a better experience.

Modders do a fantastic job with many of the mods, and their success can be measured in how many people use them.

That's a good thing, even if they can't come to consoles.

Oh, I've always played the games "vanilla" my first runthrough - because, yeah. I want to see it "how it was intended". On the other hand, these particular devs release robust mod tools & make it easy to make/use them. So I also see mods in Beth games as a dev-supported & encouraged thing, rather than going against their wishes.

Different people use mods for different things..... some change up game mechanics (adding challenge, tweaking skills to match their beliefs of how it "should" be, etc); some add more content (more quests, more locations, more NPCs, more more more!), some make it prettier and/or more matching their aesthetic tastes (graphics improvements, etc), some want to "fix" things that bug them (UI tweaks, control tweaks, etc).... all sorts of different reasons.

And that is exactly my point for... forever. Unfortunately, the die hard fans of Bethesda want to believe that the company is perfect, and bugs are meant to get used to/worked around, etc and suggesting that it is reliant on modders to fix the bugs that Bethesda does not fix offends them greatly.

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The following is an additional point about the weapons:

1. Why make weapons when modders will make them anyway?
2. Just make a generic one. Die hard fans always say M16 lookalikes are after 1950 but NV has that Assault Rifle.
3. Concentrate on the framework on weapon mods (scope/sights, magazines, etc). Bonus: boast in E3.
4. Eventually a modder creates x weapon, and everyone that likes that uses that.

It's all fine until somebody points it out.

Never had any of those mods for Skyrim and never had a single problem with the vanilla version of that game. The only mods I installed were ones that catered to my personal preference.

Which brings up another point, broken for one person doesn't mean broken for everyone. Often it is only broken for a certain configuration of motherboard, graphics card, and processor. To decide to not put money and talent into fixing an issue that affects 1 out of 100 gamers isn't relying on mods, it's basic business sense. That doesn't mean that 1 out of 100 player can't get upset, I'm sure it's rather annoying. But an Evil company that exploits modders to fix their gaping indiscretions does not Bethesda make.

The thing is not everyone needs them. They make the games so they are stable to run on most platforms. If they did bug testing and bug fixing for every single type & combination of PC we'd never see another game.

Who isn't excited about mods on consoles? That's baffling, I've wanted this since oblivion. I watched shows like top 5 skyrim mods of the week with cam and seb and I'm a console gamer for life, just because the mods were so cool and offered so much more.

It's not Bethesda that relies too much on mods, it's a lot of the players. I can't count the number of times that someone has made a suggestion of what they would like Bethesda to add to the game in a patch or DLC when the very next post will be something like, "Bethesda shouldn't waste their time on the crap *you* want (as opposed to the crap *I* want) because 500 modders will do it." That type of player attitude is extremely annoying.

Well pc users can be at least cautious over this. Not out of any malice towards console users, but fear that the construction kit will be limited. It'd be easy to see someone justifying cutting out bits and pieces because other platforms can't use parts of it.

Problem with console mods is that the console company has to approve. So, certain mods will never be on console. And I'm not only talking about advlt content but about everything Microsoft, or Sony, if that is ever to happen, consider inappropriate for any reason.

That's the major reason why I will never move to consoles. You buy some hardware, but the producer is still calling the shots on what you may or may not do with it.

That said, I never bought any Bethesda game expecting brilllant vanilla experiences. I buy them because of their continued support, or at least tolerance, of modding. Even total conversions. In that sense, no, it's not a complete experience. I'm looking forward to DLCs, if they offer content, but I'm more excited about the prospects this game offers for modders.

Bethesda is relying way too much on mods.

As soon as mods are put behind a paywall, my days of gaming are finished. The only games I play anymore are Bethesda games. I wouldn't be playing any of those without mods to spice them up, as I've pretty much done everything in them multiple times.

Fallout 4 will be the same. I've had a great first run so far completely modless, but I can't see myself getting to many more play throughs with it only vanilla, since ~50-60% of my game time has been taken up with radiant quests and settlement building, neither of which I see myself putting much time into again in the future.

Bethesda games are fun. I love them. But I owe their longevity to mods now. If I had never gone to PC from Xbox, I probably still wouldn't be playing games like oblivion or fallout 3 anymore. Not regularly at least, maybe a nostalgia load up every now and again, but not playing them with the frequency that I currently do.

Yes. And it's both good and bad.

The bad: Mods are somewhat of a crutch- it takes pressure off of gamesas to make non-vital bugfixes. If it's not something that will crash the game even though it looks ugly, there's less pressure in fixing it if you know fans will release a mod that will tidy up such loose ends.

The good: Mods are a line on the fan community- seeing what kinds of mods are downloaded and highly rated can provide a greater insight as to the tastes and preferences of fans than waiting for customer praise or hate in the mail. It's also potentially more informative: what's most indicative of fan preference? Letters from fans asking for the ability to build settlements, or a mod that adds in a settlement building mechanic which has a high rating and tens of thousands of downloads?

Your second poll question assumes that Bethesda is indeed reliant on mods.

As a console user, I ultimately don't care about mods. I've put thousands of hours into F3 and NV. After I've had my fill of F4, I will go back to those games- with no mods available to me.
Will it be nice to have some on console? sure. more content is almost always better- but it is icing.
I would be fine with F4 if mods weren't on the table- for anyone.

There is this notion that since Bethesda's games don't fall in line with the originals that mods are a necessity. Sure, if you are tying to make Bethesda games (more) like old FO games, mods might be needed for that. However, if you take it as a Bethesda game- not so much.
But the thing with that is- that's all end user POV. This thread is asking if Bethesda is counting on them. I would say no, they don't- they made the game they wanted to make. If that doesn't fit your preconception, that is your problem and you should probably be thankful that Bethesda gives you the tools to mod to begin with.


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Bethesda games has always been a buggy mess, and they are really not great with patching. But saying it makes them reliant on mods, is a speculation I don't want to entertain, since I have no prove for one or the other claim. Fact is tho, that if it weren't for mods, I wouldn't have played so many hours of their other titles. So, while Bethesda are great world builders, they are lousy at story and maintenance of their products, so if mods ever became gated behind a payment, I would simply stop buying their games. Not because they are bad, but because, as said above, they are lousy caretakers of their own products.

Btw. I didn't vote in this poll.

I was excited about mods coming to consoles but there's so many bugs in Bethesda games I'm kicking my Xbox(one&360) to the curb and going back to pc gaming. I just can't play their games 'as is' anymore.

Videogames are supposed to have bugs, that's what you should expect from the product. Doesn't matter what company it is.

Mods are there for people like me to chase our own dreams and they allow us to make what we really want to make. It allows people like me to pursue their own artistic journey that other players may or may not enjoy.

It is like if I go somewhere and buy a painting I really like, and then the seller says, 'oh, and by the way, here is a paintbrush, a whole set of paint, and 3 brand new canvases I would like you to have for absolutely free'. Some people would be totally ecstatic about having free art supplies and would go off to paint something. That doesn't mean they weren't 100% happy with the painting they got. Other people might just throw the canvases away because they don't like to paint... But it was free, so what did you lose?

Modding is not about Bethesda, it is about giving artists the chance to show their stuff to the world.

I for one thank Bethesda for that opportunity.

I have been incredibly critical of Bethesda these past few weeks. What I don't expect Bethesda (or any other company) to do - unless they're producing an MMO/f2p game - is continue to produce patches 4-5 years later for games, a role that I'm grateful Arthmoor and his team have adopted. Modders are the ones that always carry the torch beyond a game's development cycle.

And no, we're not always entitled to our opinions.

-The 4gb patch is now included, base line, in the exe. That happened in November/December 2011, right around when people started seeing the issue with the Hi-res texture packs.

-Script Extender doesn't really do anything when it's just sitting in some joe's Skyrim/Fo4 root folder. It just extends script functionality for mod authors to do some amazing things.

-Implying they ever did say that. The USKP would have been released regardless of whether someone said screw it and move on.

When you're running a business for software in general, you reach a point where you have to cut development and move on to other projects. The concept is just as true for any game developer. I've accepted that reality, it's unfortunate that you can't and honestly believe there is some conspiracy within Bethesda's branches.

DLC has been Beth's business model since ES3, as far as I know. This will not chance anytime soon.

Pretty much, DLC help publishers keep from creating new games, which depends on large budgets. So to say if a game is dependent on DLC, isn't necessarily a bad thing, it helps keep publishers focused on recent content and reduces their risk level.

Think back to Squaresoft (now Square Enix) and Capcom. Back in their golden age, both released numerous games. Square's engines provided almost the same game and turn-based mechanics, yet with a different story. Capcom, well, is Capcom, need I say anymore?

The onw thing many gamers should fear is in-game or in-app purchases, which is a trendy business model right now with leading competitors like COD, or play for free games. I truly hope Beth never commits to this style.

*mounts horse and starts riding to the next town*

*after a couple of minutes, sees pop-up*

"Thank you for trying our free travel by horse option. If you would like to continue using your horse, please visit the store to add more horse-riding minutes to your account. In the meantime, your horse will be safely waiting for you at the nearest stable once you dismount. Please also see our large variety of three horse armors to enhance your horse's appearance. Have a nice day!"

*dismounts horse and clicks on fast travel point*

"Oh dear, you have used your 3-per-day allotment of fast travel destinations. If you would like to add more to your allotment, visit our store to see our variety of packages depending on your fast travel use. We are having a sale on our "use fast travel 20 times" package. Don't forget to check out our new horse armors while you're there! Much obliged!"

4GB had to be modded for quite some time before the official patch.

SE must be installed to run the mods that're dependent on it.

Do not put words into my mouth, and do not assume so many things.

On one hand, you talk about cutting development and moving onto other projects, on the other, you attempt to say that they arent reliant on mods. Make up your damn fickle mind. Because that is exactly what I said.

It seems to me that you do not understand that there can be 2 types of bugs. 1 caused by the executables (*.exe and *.dll files), 1 caused by the data in the game (maps, scripts, textures, video, *.esp *.esm).

Get it right. Your dreamt up "configuration issue" only applies to the exe and lib files. And no modders are doing anything directly to the executable or library files.

To put it simply, if Preston says "hurr durr, I are Preston." to some guy, he would not say "Would you like to have some ice cream today, my General?" to another because they have different hardware.

The ones that modders may "fix" are the data files.

This is bloody common sense.

Like all die hard Bethesda fans, on one hand, you talk about "business sense", on another, you talk about "exploitation not making sense". It is a fact that items classed as low priority may not be fixed. Therefore, Bethesda is relying on modders to fix whatever bugs they did not fix. Players may choose not to fix it by not installing unofficial patches and live with it. People like me do not want to live with it when there's a better option available. So everyone involved here is really relying on the modders that do that unofficial patches to patch things up. For Bethesda, it's because it "makes business sense", and players because they do not want to have bugs.

Understand?

I just want to say this "Mod is a MUST" especially THAT mod.