Well if you go by Avellones Bible like Bethesda probably does the Enclave are not the end all know all of the vaults, plus their vault equipment they had at the oil rig was destroyed.

Then why keep teaching people about America and their way of life in the Vault? Why keep the peopel from leaving if they know America is gone? Why would they keep following orders from a terminal sent by "America" for 200 years if you believe there is no America. They send you the all clear code to open. How would some wastelander get that code? It could only come from "America."

It doesn't make sense for the Overseer to not open the Vault when sent the code needed to do so. It doesn't make sense that the Enclave would not just simply send the "open sesame" backdoor code to open the Vault when the Overseer tells the Enclave to [censored] off.



Then how did they send the code to the Vault in 101? How would they send the all clear to any other Vault to get people out to boost their numbers? You just supported the my case there. The Enclave would have backed up the codes to open the doors to the Vaults along with all the data gained from the Vaults. Why go through the trouble of setting up Navarro or Raven Rock for that matter and not have a way to back that info up?

If they were talking to Eden for all those years before Fallout 2 then for sure they would have.

I see what you mean Styles, and I think you may be right. Raven Rock should have the passcodes.

We also haven't considered the possiblity yet that the Enclave were planning a raid on Vault 101 and simply got distracted by events during the main quest. They contacted Vault 101 remotely, offered them a chance to open peacefully, and 101 rejected. Now they would send in a verti-assault team and force them to open up (using the override code). Basically do what they did with Vault 13, bust some heads and be done.

If they United States government started opening the door 200 years later I would hit the close button. lol It would be like fighting a little kid over a car window. Except this would involve big sirens and a 20 ton door lol. There is no way I would trust a United States government that I have not heard from in 200 years, and they have done nothing with the capital. I d have people on shifts at the close button lol. Securrity would be stacked at the door incase someone risked getting crushed and slipped in. I d even have the tunnel snakes down there.

There is a Flaw with that. Enclave were in DC for something like 35 years. Why wait so damn long? They opened other vaults/vault after the Rig and before Fallout 3 according to the theory. So why wait 35 years? If they have the ability to open other Vaults (which they should have) and have opened other Vaults. Why would they just take the overseer "saying [censored] off" as a sign to not open up the Vault. The Enclave want to build a healthy pure blood stock and they arn't going to let some crazy overseer stop their plans. They would have on in their and killed that ass of an overseer with their open seseme code as soon as they go into the DC area 35 years or so before Fallout 3.



Really? :facepalm:

The Enclave's override code would override the Vault Dwellers control of the Vaults computers so they could not just press the "close button."

I also doubt the Overseer would press the "close button" over and over every minute of everyday for 35 years.

You give the Enclave so much credit for being smart and thinking of every possible thing but you don't believe they would back up their files or have an "open seseme" override code?

The fo 2 intro does not look like a force open to me. Those people were waving. Does it say they forced 13 open?


They were waving and they mowed them down with mini guns.

See why you don t open fo The United States after hearing nothing from them. No updates nothing........ Then they all of a sudden want you to open. Not if I could help it.... Who knows whats out their calling its self the government.

I don t trust them now in real life. [censored] that I d hit the close button forever. Unless they could disable my controls I would always hit close as soon as the little lights came on.

I d have techs disabling the wireing to the arm. Good luck opening then.

They have to talk to me for months show me progress then I might open.

I wonder why the Vault 101 overseer didn't think of that as a way to prevent people from getting out or in ever again.

^^^^ That is what I believe about the vaults Enclave knows alot about the vaults, but not every single thing about every single vault.

The vault idea was made up by Cain before the Enclave was made up.

The Enclave is not the United States government, but they were some scoundrels. I go with what Avellone says about the vaults.

Cain made them up before Enclave, and Avellone wasn t going to step on Cains toes. That is why Enclave does not know everysingle thing about everysingle vault.

Riiighht, they're just a bunch of guys who just decided to call themselves the United States Government and just happen to have U.S. military assets in abundance and just happen to have had the U.S. President with them when they fled to the Oil Rig, and just happen to maintain and have the ability to control U.S. military bunkers including the Raven Rock facility, and just happen to have information concerning vaults including passcodes and official government all clear signs.

Makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

Some of there were government, but for power to trasnsfer In doomsday scenario

#1 the pres has to die. How did that happen?

#2 the vice pres has to die. They pres and the vice pres do not go to the same place in a state of emergency. How did he did?

#3 The speaker of the house has to die. He does not go where the pres or the vice pres go. How did he die?

I really don't understand what you mean. What do you mean by "in order for the power to transfer". You seem to be referring to the Presidential line of succession, but it makes no sense in the context you are using. The President of the United States fled to the Oil Rig, he didn't die, presidential succesion protocols weren't enacted.

If somehow the they all die then the senete and house elect a new emergency pres. Enclave as far as my reading goes was not the entire U.S. government. They were some senetors and some of the house, and rich posiden energy people. Some how all the major heads of state had to have died for someone as low in the government as a member of the Enclave to really get control.

Maybe thdy killed them their selves. I seriously doubt the real elected pres of the US in 2077 was involved in this plan to kill his people rather than help them or the vise pres.

Somethinb fishy happened for Enclave to be the only U.S. gov left.

We know when missles are inbound way before they hit and all these people would have been scattered to pre assigned secret locations.


Was the 2077 pres a member of the Enclave?

If he was then it was way more than a small society in a larger one.

And if the entire U.S. government was Enclave I can a sure you they are still out there. The U.S. government is also the entire U.S. military.

So the 2077 president was a member of the Enclave?

Where did you read this? No where I have read has it stated that the Enclave was only "senators and members of the House". I have however, read the line that stated "the President and members of the government fled to the Oil Rig". The Enclave was not a seperate branch of the government or anything, they were the government. Members of the government though, also had strong connections with corporations, and it is this "alliance" which formed the full "Enclave".

In Fallout 2, they never refer to themselves as "the Enclave" they refer to themeselves as the "United States".




And yet where did the government sanctioned experiments at Mariposa and the vaults come from......



You have the wrong idea. You act as if the Enclave is a poltical party or something to that effect. The "Enclave" are remnants of the government.




Yes. Because he was the President of the United States.



Ever see those army vehicles and national gaurd checkpoints in Fallout 3? Ever notice that some feral ghouls wear tattered combat armor? Thats the rest of the U.S. military right there.

I ll have to look into this.


If the entire United States government and armed forces are the Enclave there should never even be a debate about if they are still out there.

I was always talking like they were a pre war secret society.

All of the US govn is not going to one place during a nuclear attack.

That means they had access to every single thing at the United States disposal. Nearly every fortified bunker know to man. There is no way they all went to an oil rig.

If the entire US was Enclave you better start looking at the fallout bible. That is what the US government would do. Not pile up on 1 oil rig. That would be sooo stupid they wouldn t have even made the game.

Apparently though, that is indeed what happened. All members of Congress and the upper echelons of the Government (which survived) went to the Oil Rig. No other base was used.

Take for example, Raven Rock. It is a COG location which is specfically designed to act as the Pentagon in case of a disaster (we are talking real life here). If the Enclave was just a subset of the American government, why wasn't Raven Rock used by the "real" government? Yet it remained untouched until the Enclave came from the west.

Edit: spelling

I had no idea it was the entire US government.

Anyone who things they are not still out there is just plain crazy now.

There is no way they all went to a [censored] oil rig. That is not what the United States does, they would retreat to remote sections of the world.

Now we are not talking about a small group at all. We are talking about the government and military of the most powerful nation on this planet. Even more so in fo world, and they are most definitely out there. Im suprised they are not in every fallout game.

No wonder Bethesda had them in fo3. It makes no sense not to....

OHHHHHH WOW Bethesda is trying to fix the [censored] writing that has the entire US government and armed forces on 1 oil rig.



OMG HOW [censored] STUPID!!!!!! They would split the military into everey base and bunker in this country and others.


There would be so many United States troops left and living in bunkers it would be sick.

The Enclave were not the entire pre-war government. For all we know the last pre-war president that went to the Rig was only president for a very short time. It could have been the hight of Enclave power before the war. Anyways the point is the Enclave were a small group that had powerful people, not the whole government.

Again, that is what happened. I reiterate my point about Raven Rock. Why wasn't it used if they had bases all over? Most of the grunts in the army and lower officials did not go with the Enclave, they were left to fend for themselves. Hence the national guard checkpoints.

This is what I thought, and they assumed command calling themselves the U.S. government, because if the whole pre war government was in on this together they would have had a much better plan. National Gaurd are called weekend warriors they are a pimple on an enlisted mans ass. They go to war and some die, but they are more for national disasters and back up for enlisted men. And the ferals in combat armour don t tell me much about the entire U.S. military. I thought they mostly all die fighting the war, but if Encalve controls them there is no way they would waste them all for nothing.

There is however, a major flaw in this ideaology that I have yet to see addressed. I agree that there was probably a good portion of the U.S. government that didn't know of the plan to head to the Oil Rig, and I may have miscommunicated this in previous posts. However, certainly upper echelons would have known, and it appears that members of Congress and the executive office of the President went.

The flaw is this, if the Enclave were only a small portion of the government which simply assumed command. Where did the "official" government go? Why was Raven Rock not occupied. Why do we not see them around? Also you are forgetting that most of the U.S army was bogged down in China, that is where they are.

To address Styles claim that the President in 2077 had only been recently elected and was a member of the Enclave, there is no proof of that. All we have is the quote that says "American President". I don't have to dissprove a negative. Simply because it could be a possibility does not make it right. There is no indication that there is any hidden meaning behind that quote, so the burden of proof is on you to come up with hard evidence to support the conspiracy theory.

The Enclave for what ever reason stopped carring about the rest of America. They were only out for themselves. One of the Reason why I am not happy with how Enclave are shown in Fallout 3, is that they are shown as super pro-American. The Enclave just wanted to start everything over. They made it so they would survive. They did not have the power or the means to save everyone so why even try. Their people were high ranking people, the president no less. Does not mean they can or would save everyone or be able to build large bases all over. They still have to play the role of pro-American, I am here to serve the public, public official. They could not just say "I want a trillion dollar program and by the way don't look into it :shifty: " The president isn't all powerful lord of the American people.

@ Lt. Andronicus. I did not say it was fact that the pre-war president was only in power a short time. I said for all we know he could have been only in power for a short time. Also if you factor in Tactics the rest of the Government went to Vault Zero.

Enclave Built Vault Zero to fail. After all they did not give a crap about the rest of the government. Vault Zero would have been the public face of Vault program. Where the Government would go and run the rebuilding of America. Enclave had other plans as we know, for the Vaults and rebuilding.

I have to read about Enclave now for like 3 hrs on wiki and fo bible to try to decide.

In 2077 if the courty was run by the Enclave they would not waste the men. Their plans were for later, so they would have built vaults with divisions of US military.


Now if the United States government controled the military they would have attempted to fight a war, and keep [censored] in order leading to 95% of the U.S. military s deaths.


This series [censored].

Now I have to go study about a video game series. More!!!!!!

Rook play Fallout 2. You will learn far more by playing it then you will from days of studying the wiki, trust me. It is the only way to learn.

Well my post wasn't really directed at you. I see now that I worded it that way though. It was more for Rook, who took your statement to be fact and absolute.

Also can you elaborate more about what your are talking about with Vault Zero? I haven't played tactics and my information on the game only comes from the wiki.