and if you really want to stretch it. Raven Rock was their contingency for a contingency.

Well not really given that the ENCLAVE was off the record as a continuity of government base whereas Raven Rock was an official one.

But after the Enclave Rig blew up they were forced to use it as their contigency. Find a base with a ZAX computer and Raven Rock had one. Why they didn't go to San Francisco or Sierra Army Depot is beyond me. I guess it was because of Eden? The Shi Emperor would have made a better president then Eden.

Point is the Enclave was their contigency. The idea of a Vault or Vaults as a contingency to a contingency is to far out there for me.

Good point. Still though, even if it was unintended for such a purpose, it still acted as a contingency plan.



The entire reason was because of Eden (well that and the fact that they could have a new home). Also I don't buy that line from the strat guide that says they went only to find a ZAX (not only that but the line is very vague) they went because Eden became the legitimate President and they followed his orders with hope.

Its absolutely ridiculous in my view to assume that they traveled all that way to simply find a ZAX, when there isn't any real indication that the Oil Rig had one. Or that they absolutely needed one in order to continue on. No, what they needed was a new President, they needed a commander and chief. Eden was the one to succeed Richardson, and that is why they traveled, had Eden not become President, its difficult to say what they would have done. Autumn backs this up when he says that they went east and followed Eden because he was "next in line for the Presidency, the chain of command must be upheld!"

Doesn't work like that. They improvised. After the destruction of the Rig they would have come up with this plan. I agree, that it would be out of place for them to come up with this idea before the destruction of the rig. But afterwards, as they are desperate for pure humans... I think it would be plausible.

Cheers,
Mk II

I don't think is is very plausible because the Vaults would have all opened before Fallout 2 but for Vault 101. There would be no Vault out there full of people not messed up from a vault exparement that has not opened the vault to the ooutside world, thereby making themselves impure. I find it far fetched that any Vault other then Vault 101 would be left unopened and even Vault 13 and 101 opened the doors. I doubt the Enclave would use people they considered nothing more then lab rats as new soldiers. Still to be far I can't rule it out but it would just ruin the idea of Vaults for me. "The before time" Myths and legends of the waste. Rare things to come across, hidden gems. Now they are thrown in for fan service and ruins all that. Coming across more unopened vaults populated would just be stupid IMO.

I am sticking to some partols and scouts came back to Navarro and some people survived the Rig, combined with FPS that Fallout 3 is and the need to have spawns to shoot as the reason why there are so many Enclave in Fallout 3.

On another note... Maybe this should be it's own topic. I have a question open to all to debate..

What would you say the ratio of Males to Females are in Fallout 3 Enclave? I don't recall coming across that many females. A few Enclave not in PA were women but those I killed in PA were mostly men if I am recalling it right.

There doesn't seem to be many, unlike Fallout 2 there were no women soldiers in F3 and only a few scientists and officers.

I'm thinking around 60-40 (in favor of males). My reasoning for this is generally because while the numbers of female soldiers is low (the ratio of male to female officers and scientists however seems to be about 50-50) is not unusual for there to be more males in an army than females. We must also taken into account the unseen familes of the soldiers, which must have included mostly women and children. Not everyone in Fallout 3 could have logically been out fighting.

Still just factoring the number of women seen in the game that are Enclave is low. So this could also hamper the population growth since Fallout 2. There are unseen families that is true and not everyone would be fighting and armies tend to be more men the women.

Still it could also be a sign that women are busy making babies. Or even something more drastic. That the Enclave have abandoned the one man one women marrage that they would surely hold dear in favour of polygamist marrage. Many women for each man. As talked about in the end of Dr.Strangelove.

This is most likely whats going on. The women we see in the game are likely either ones that are extremely capable commanders or scientists, or possibly ones that are incapable of raising children (through infertility). The other women would likely be under safe protection devoting all their time to child raising. This is not because of a sixist view or anything on the part of the Enclave, but simply because these women would be extremely important, too important to risk losing in combat. If you have 1 man and 100 women, you can repopulate fairly easily and quickly. But 1 woman and 100 men on the other hand....

Your all forgettign theat in the beggining the Enclave did nto care about genetic conformity, this came years after the actual war.

In the advent that the Enclave started nation building or needed more canon fodder they would have just used mainlanders because originally they were nto against people stuck on the land, they were all for them trying to destroy communism and whatnot.

So saying the Vaults were designed this way is farfecthed because the Enclave would have if needed just used mainlanders or pockets of civilization that survived.

Yeah drastic times unfortunately fall for drastic measures *cough* Eden *cough* . But yeah the Enclave has never discriminated anyway, as said earlier, in Fallout 2 there were women who were just basic soldiers.

I changed my last post to many women for one man. Still this is a likely reason to the population boom. Women that can have kids are having kids and as many kids as possible as soon as they are mature enought to have them. It is very possible they abandoned monogamy for polygamy out of necessity.

10 women having kids fathered by one man would be a great way to raise the population. A few hundred survivors both from Navarro and Rig Combined for 35 years could boost the population to what a couple thousand?

I think this has come up before. I don't think it fully explains the large numbers in Fallout 3 but it bridges some of the lore gap. The rest would be because Fallout 3 is mostly a FPS and FPS need alot of spawns to kill and loot.

I think the best theory so far to explain the population growth in-lore comes from a combination of survivors from the Rig and Navarro, as well as a drastic program of population growth initiated by the Enclave.

Styles, where did you get that idea that every single vault has been opened?

Fallout 2 "these great Vaults opened and the inhabitants immerged"

Other info that came with the original games as well as the bible tell us that the Vaults opened all but Vault 13 and later Vault 101. Enclave would have no reason to have Vault closed for longer then 200 years. What ever the reason behind theVault experiments, It could not have been designed to run longer then 200 years say for Vault 101. Really the Enclave planned to rebuild at some point. There is only so much data you can get over 200 years. Enclave have the use of super computers, they can just run extrapolations and simulations.

Have you played the Originals? If not give them a shot because the Vaults provide hidden gems and make one think of "the before times." People talk of Vaults as nothing more then a Myth or legend. The games gave hints of the past but weren't really meant to be all about that. Adding more unopened Vaults just keeps things stuck in the past. Remember it has been over 200 years. The people would want out, even Vault 101 couldn't keep people in.

Boldened

I agree that there are most certainly vaults that if the people can keep them functioninb they would use the vaults as thier main cities.

They would have people go in and out to get stuff, but everywhere is not as nice as the west coast.

Problem is if you read about the vaults that are in fo3 in the Pentagon the AI and stuff that operates them only last so long.

I can t remember how long, but it wasn t 500 years.

Vault 101s records were erased, but the other vaults equipment is bound to break down. Machinery of that magnitude will break down at some point, and with tech like that there will be things 99.9% of people can t fix. After so long they will run out of spare parts and have to open up. Over 200 years is a very long time for a number of coplexed machines all doing different jobs, but working for the same goal to last.

All it takes is 1 of these several very important machines to break, and then they have to open up ..... even if they didn t want to.

@ Styles Im over 95% sure that their were no female Enclave combatants in fo3. At that point pure human females are the most important thing in the world to Enclave. If 1 gets killed its like losing at least 5-10 people. Really more, because a little girl is another pure human baby machine.

Females in the Enclave are way to important to risk by putting them into combat.



Hey lol they were probably all shudled to the Congo World Enclave vault for safe keeping once it became apparent that the US Enclave was failing.


Or they are stashed away somewhere in the U.S. in some secret government vip base just giving birth to little pure human kids.

Enclave can probably manipulate the birth process to be more males than females. So Im sure there is some big bunker somewhere with like 700 full grown men in black pa just practicing shooting plasma rifles for when its time.

Its really hard to snuff out a group of people that know all the hiding places had the cash to set up multiple backup/escape plans.

I'd be very cautious about taking some things in game too literally, like male to female population ratios and the role of women in the enclave - if we get too literal we find ourselves with several populated and furnished levels of Vault 13 that are completely innaccessable -how did the people get in there.

Why not S.A.D - same reason why they left navaro - too close to the BOS and NCR.

I think the poster citing the very age of the vaults has hit it on the head; even vault 101 opened previously.

Well there has to be a reason, and fo universe is here to talk about reasons and what ifs. My what if is very solid if I do say so myself.

Bos had females........ We can just call it "bad Bethesda writing" or we could look for something more.

I would say that that is the case, Vault City in Fallout 2 maintained a very minimal population - 103 citizens over 100 years after opening the Vault - because it controlled pregnancies through control cycles.

It's also pointless putting one Enclave soldier in a massive bunker because; the Enclave have small numbers and need to stick together so that they can breed with diversity. Oh and Enclave APA was developed on the ENCLAVE so any of your mythical bunkers won't have them.


Because it was a design choice pure and simple; as I've said before here, in Fallout 2 the Enclave had female frontline infantry and in Fallout 3 there were women officers but just for whatever reason no female grunts; given that the population is derivied from Navarro and the Enclave don't discriminate. We haven't seen all of Raven Rock - as we only saw 8 beds in the entire place - and it's more than likely any civilians and such were down there. Seeing kiddies and civilians doesn't make the Enclave look evil enough, it might *gasp* create a situation of moral greyness, so they weren't put it; want to know how much Bethesda wanted the Enclave to be evil and inhumane? They don't even have any ambient dialouge when they aren't in combat and just talking amongst each-other; they just walk back and forth saying "Hello".

Well thats all fine and dandy Mr. Enclave, but Im goinb with they kept women out of the line of fire to asure they would not get killed. Those few officers baby making parts probably broke, so thats why they put them out there. As officers too, because thats how highly Enclave looks at women at this point.


Raven Rock was the combat base of operations, still too much of a risk to have the women and little plasma shooter tykes. They had death claws and crazy stuff in there. Too much of a chance for some kind of disaster to happen. No place for their highest priority. Making more pure humans........


VIP Bunker like hidden vally somewhere between nowhere and good bye is where the women and children are. Somewhere really safe with like 700 14-25 year old males with black fo2 mk ll pa. Just shooting plasma rifles until that day.

I don't think that that is how the US Army - or if insist on being difficult - any army claiming to be the US Army works.


Or there's just more of the facility we haven't seen as, again, the only places we saw had a total of 8 beds.

The Oil Rig was destoryed in 2242, you fight the Enclave in FO3 in 2277. That's 35 years. It wouldn't be difficult to double your population in that time. Additionally it was implied even in Fallout 2 the Enclave may have had other basis across the wasteland. How else could the Chosen One infiltrate Navarro as a new enclave recruit? And the Enclave defector A. Ron Meyers had never been to the Oil Rig. So the Enclave may have established colonies dotted across the U.S to maintain a sufficent population.

We could also assume that releasing the virus onto the Oil Rig is non-cannon and perhaps most of the citizens managed to evacuate.


And you base this completely on your own hatred for fallout 3 and not on anything that was actually in the game material. Vault 13 was intended to stay closed for two hundred years to test long term isolation. Its not out of the question to have a vault designed to test how long could it possibly surrive before failing. Two important facts, The creators of fallout intentionally left most of the vaults undesigned for future games and even fanfiction. So to say "all the vaults" is just plain ignorant.

And secondly Vault 3 (in NV) was sealed for a couple hundred years until a water leak forced them to open up for trade.(which led to there destruction at the hands of the fiends.) How do you explain the original creators of the series adding this vault which remained sealed longer then any vault so far? Keep in mind that the original creators of the fallout series MADE New Vegas.


No they talk about Vault 13 as a myth because the cannonized hero The Vault Dweller came from there.




Vault 13 had a population of one thousand residents, yet you don't see the space for that many in FO1 do you? You need to learn about a little thing in RPG games about representative population and representive area. You only need to see enough for the PC to interact with.