You should not have to create arbitrary rule-sets to end up not exploiting or breaking the game.


This is like if you were to take a test and next to all of the questions are the answers. To tell someone "don't cheat!" is absurd. It is right freaking there. You can't ignore that. Just by going through the test, you are tempted to cheat the entire time. A better solution is to NOT HAVE THE FREAKING ANSWERS NEXT TO THE QUESTIONS and in order to cheat you have to OPEN A BOOK AND FIND THE ANSWERS.

I want to play logically.

Playing logically in Skyrim with respect to Smithing breaks the game.

Bethesda should fix it.

Why should I invent a half dozen made-up rules so the game doesn't get broken instantly?

I should make up rules so I can customize the game -- not to be able to play the game in a non-broken fashion.




Because I was that random gamer 72 hours ago, and in every playthrough I still need to use half a dozen made-up house rules to stop myself from automatically breaking the game.

My entire first character was [censored] up because it was SO EASY TO DRAGONSCALE. My second character I throttled heavily, and I STILL, in retrospect, ended up with more Smithing than I wanted (because, you know, I still want to use Smithing as a skill).

My THIRD character has even more throttles in place, with a strict litany of "I will Smith when ... I will not Smith when ... I will not pick up ingots ... or ores past ... I will pick up ores here ... but not here ..." and I still have just a tad too much Smithing, but it's workable.

BECAUSE IT'S SO EASY TO BREAK IT WITHOUT A [censored]TON OF SELF-ENFORCED THROTTLING.

Bingo. End the thread.

Lol thats just insane, suddenly im happy that i didnt lvl my alchemy

When you are powerleveling these things in that way, you know without a doubt you are doing something not intended. Making 200 iron daggers doesn't seem comparable to those things. It's not exploiting the system, unlike most of those.

Doing those above things also doesn't result in you skipping all the armor in the game and one shotting everything.

Also.. as said before, leveling smithing fast isn't the problem. The problem is combining smithing/aclhemy/enchanting and creating gear like this: http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5541/wtftct.jpg

Making dragonscale armor and giving it legendary properties will still give you a challenge on Master difficulty. Now putting smithing gear, and drinking a 130% smithing potion to make stuff WAY above what the game intended will make everything easy. Further increase that by making 49%(give or take) enchanting potions and putting 47% damage increase on nearly every piece of gear. That's the problem.

I don't have self enforced rules and guess what? Just got Daedric at 41, and that means you have self control problems.

Guy above this post pointed out you can break anything in the game. Just like you could boost Athletics by jumping nonstop in Oblivion.

So really the issue is more with you guys than the game.

You are going out of your way to do those things. Even when not going out of your way, you are leveling and have the ability to create items that completely outmatch the content.

That is the difference. I am not macroing crafting to raise it up. I am just crafting and just by doing that, at the beginning of the game, I reach a god-mode state and make most everything in the game obsolete. Choosing to forgo this, means I forgo crafting, and/or crafting & enchanting & alchemy. That is not logical.

To grind most other skills in the game, it takes specific player effort. And grinding most of the skills is awkward and unintuitive.

Most skill grinds to 100 will hamper your gameplay by artificially leveling your character.

To grind Smithing and kill your gameplay, you only need to have common sense.

The best part is, grinding Smithing hampers your gameplay twice over. Not only does it artificially level your character, but you get super duper items which makes the loot in the world obsolete and /zzz.

^This

Yes, but you don't have to do it. Like I said it never happened to me before knowing the exploit. Most mines have like 12 ore or less, and why bother making Iron Daggers when I can make Ebony ones?

The point is, it's in the game. If you want to use this work around its your own fault. Kill your experience and stop playing the game sooner. Use console commands if you want 100 Smithing that bad. See if I care. Really... See if Bethesda cares. You already bought the game. They already have your money. This isn't an MMO where they constantly have to change things to keep you paying for a monthly fee. They already have what they want from you.

And asking to remove it does what exactly? If you wanted to level up Smithing naturally why don't you? You're really just asking to force OTHER players to play the way YOU think it should play when this is already in the game. But it's not like they're competing with you on an auction house. It's not like they're using gear a week ahead of you in the arena or battlegrounds. You're not behind someone on recount in a new raid. You are playing this game all by yourself. Seriously.

1.) Merchants should carry tons of iron and steel, very little of anything else. Finding a bar of malachite or ebony in the store should be a "You're selling what?!? GIMME" experience.

2.) Experience gains for smithing should be based on a function including the value of the thing you're making and your current skill level, with a bonus if it's something you've never made before.
- As a newb smith with a skill less than 20, you can learn a lot by making an iron even though it's not worth a lot
- Your second iron dagger isn't worth as much XP. Your third iron dagger is worth even less. You get a lot of XP for your first iron sword, less for your second, etc etc.2
- As your skill goes up, you will need to make increasingly valuable (made from rare materials) things to keep your skill gains coming at a high rate. For a smith of skill level 60, you will learn basically nothing from making iron anything, and will need to be working in orichalcum and moonstone if you really want to learn anything new.

I am not going out of my way to do this
In fact I haven't done any of this on my Rogue at all.
I am just pointing out that Smithing isn't the only ability that you can do this to.
In fact you can do this to any ability...
So going on and on about smithing when EVERYTHING can be done this way is just stupid.

Your argument can work against you as well, for players that want to powerlevel, why don't they use console commands? The problem is that by leveling up Smithing naturally, you end up breaking the game. This occurs for a few reasons:
-Smithing raises your character level (this doesn't even make sense)
-The best items in the game are easy to craft and upgrade
-There are no level requirements to gear only skill value requirements.

Which is why I suggested:
-Crafting does not raise character level, but instead a Crafting level is introduced. Crafting level cannot surpass your character level.
-More perks are introduced to the crafting system. (More craftable items!)
-Higher tiers of gear are more difficult to craft.

There you go, the system is fixed. Players wishing to powerlevel and get the best gear at an early level can use console commands. Standard methods of leveling do not end up making you overpowered/underpowered. You can make more items now. What downside is there to this?

You are not going out of your way to place a physical rubber band around your mouse button to level blocking?
You are not going out of your way to pickpocket and place items on merchants only to pickpocket them again?

Versus - I just sit in town crafting and I can make the best items in the game. Smithing is problematic because not only is it easy to level, it advances your character level and has such an enormous impact on your effectiveness. It is out of scale with all other abilities. If I were to say level pickpocketing or even blocking like you said, that really isn't going to do anything to the game...

To the people trying to change this, are you just trying to impress someone with your Skyrim talents?
I think the MMO elitists who strut around Stormwind on their hardmode only raid mounts with their orange legendary weapons just don't understand what a single player game is.
Someone didn't explain to you or you just forgot that there are cheat codes and ways around EVERYTHING in single player games.
You know that you don't have to use them... I know in MMOs you have to use everything available to you but in single player games like this you can play how you want...

I would rather they change the xp gain per item than change the amount of ores in the game.

I disagree completely. Going to town and making 200 daggers to make smithing better is something many new players are doing just based on common sense. Being that new to the game you aren't aware what affects it will have, and it was one of the first things I did. Sitting in a inn to level sneaking.. you know without a doubt ur exploiting, etc, etc.

We shouldn't have to ignore entire aspect of the game to make it enjoyable. All that needs to be done is making it harder to level smithing for a brand new character, and nerfing smithing/enchanting potions. Simple changes.



Comparing exploiting to making 200 daggers is "redonkulus". That's the best word I can come up with for people using that comparison.



Would people stop comparing WoW to Skyrim.. jesus.

No one cares about epeen, they want a game where they can min/max and still enjoy the game. We shouldn't have to weaken our character to enjoy the game and not one shot everything. I play this game for the RPG elements, like many do, and if I have a better piece of armor sitting in front of me.. i'm going to use it. The game should be balanced enough to not give me the abilty to make the best armor a couple hours into the game unless i'm REALLY going out of my way to do so. I had the materials to make 100 smithing without even trying.

The problem is that playing how you want has the unintended side-effect of breaking the game. I don't care if other people cheat, but why make that the default? It is a backwards system that needs to be corrected. I shouldn't have to cheat to play the game legitly or impose rules on myself. Rather, in order to get the best items in the game early on and quick-level I should have to use console commands. The fact that I can cheat without ever even exploiting or entering into the console, is the issue.

Why are you against this?
Do you even understand what this change will do or how these changes will affect you or others?

To a lesser extent, this is similar to an issue in Oblivion I had where my Chameleon Armor and Sneaking made NPCs stand still and die in a hit or two. I didn't cheat, I picked up an item and the AI system basically broke.

You don't have to ignore anything. Like I've said, I haven't imposed any rules and I just hit Daedric at level 41. Making Iron daggers is pointless, they don't get you much money, and unless you have excess Iron Ore, why bother?

And who cares what new players do?

A better question is... If you aren't affected or care about this problem, then why are you fighting people against it and posting in this thread?

I don't mean to be rude.. but the people complaining saying "don't fix this" either
1) Aren't affected by the issue because they didn't use smithing.
2) Don't care about being overpowered and one shotting.
3) Are just wanting to stir up drama?

I don't see a reason for people to not want this change. They just need to edit a few valuables and it fixes the game for the better, if you aren't affected by it.. then who cares.. if you are.. then you welcome the change.

More perks and more items will likely be added to DLC. They need you to have a reason to buy the expansions. The game came out 2 weeks ago...

They gave every "class" (Warrior/Mage/Rogue) a crafting ability. Alchemy and Enchanting gain you levels as well. You can gain experience eating butterflies and bees you found on the side of the road...
I know in MMOs you don't get experience for making items but in WoW you get experience for harvesting the nodes now. Different games, different means of getting ahead mate. This is Skyrim, this is how it works.

High tiers of gear ARE enchanting/alchemy/smithing gear. I know you might have went straight to Legendary but there is Fine, Superior, Exquisite, Flawless and Epic as well.
I know you're used to each tier looking different than the last. In this game it's the same skin with more stats...

you haven't dabbled in alchemy have you? +130% smithing potions and +32% enchanting potions is no joke either :3



perhaps materials should be removed altogether? forcing players to actually have to go mine for their resources, I am also in agreeance that players should have to make progressively better items as they level as mentioned by few others

They were saying as a new player just by using common sense and not doing any exploits other than playing the game, they were able to make the Best gear possible and level up without ever setting foot in a dungeon. What this does for most people's experiences is ruin all of the gameplay afterward because they are so powerful everything dies in a hit or two even on master. For others, the inverse is true and they have leveled up without leveling any combat abilities and are dying too easily in combat. The problem does not lie in the fact the players leveled their Smithing early on. The problem is that they were able to level their Smithing for one so easily, and two that once leveled, it has such an enormous impact on performance that the game becomes trivial.

This has nothing to do with wanting to limit what you can do. This has to do with limiting what you can do without cheating or exploiting.

This is akin to say there existing an item in the game that gave you god mode. All you had to do was do an easy repeatable quest at the first town you encounter to get it.

The major problem is.. there is no cap to legendary. Legendary can mean 160 damage.. or 600 damage. There's no limit. 4x 29% smithing + 130% smithing pot + 100 smithing results in insane gear that was likely never really intended. Combine that with 32% enchanting pots + 2 enchants per item perk (easily gettable WITH your main perks too) and you are doing ~300% more damage on top of that.

The values are incredibly off, and need to be nerfed.