Explain to me, in explicit detail, how logical/realistic it is for smithing iron daggers and an Elven cuirass should yield the same experience?

Artist don't learn how to paint like artist using fingerpainting techniques and then just suddenly get artisan level skill after having done 54 fingerpaintings.

How about you use some common sense here. It's truly not hard.

The fact is that smithing like 6 items gave me TWO levels. That's ridiculous. Mixing something like 40 potions got me half a level maybe. Smithing XP is completely out of whack. I shouldn't be able to skip my teens just by making a suit of armor and some weapons, even if I wasn't grinding or trying to exploit.

Not trying to say it's as big a problem as the UI is, but it's still a problem even if don't try to cheat with it. I have three perks saved up since I've leveled far faster than my combat skills are advancing. I shouldn't be able to "earn" 15 points in smithing before I can get 2 points in block, yet somehow, just by smithing what I can use, that's happened.

I agree that it should level as it goes higher, HOWEVER, if you abuse it, you're an idiot. That's the point I'm making and the point you missed entirely. Pay attention.

LISTED SOLUTIONS, AND WHY THEY ARE BAD:

1. IRON DAGGERS GIVE NO SKILL after X low level (e.g. 25 Smith).

This is bad because Steel Daggers will consequently give no skill after "40", for example. For roleplaying purposes, many character will want to stop at Steel, or Dwarven, or Elven or Orcish, or Glass in perks. But they want to eventually hit 100 Smith skill.

How will a player who uses Steel gear be able to skill up to 100 Smith at a reasonable rate?

They cannot if you hardcap skillups for "lower tier" crafts.

WORKAROUND: ALLOW HIGH-COST (ARMOR, 2h weaps) CRAFTS TO CONTINUE TO GIVE SKILLUPS ... FOREVER. EVEN IF IT'S STEEL (and maybe IRON too). Just have the daggers and bracers, et al, decay quickly. Have the medium-cost crafts continue to give moderate skillups up through 90 or something (helm, other).


2. Reduce skillups from everything (AND IRON DAGGERS).

This is bad because if you play the game without optimizing for Smithspam, then it will take [censored] forever to get skillups.


3. LOWER (IRON) ORE ON MERCHANTS.

This is bad because ... wait, it's not bad. It makes it a hassle to afkspam Smithing in town. To get mats at a reasonable clip you actually have to go outside and adventure. E.g. play the game.

Sure, you can still SuperWaitSpam, but you're really [censored] yourself over by explicitly un-immersing yourself.

The point is this: you can't stop a player from intentionally hitting 200 Smith skill. If they have to consolecommand it, they will.

What you can do is stop them from instantly hitting 100 Smith skill by tripping over it after 2 hours of gameplay.

#1 culprit: OVER 9000 IRON ON MERCHANTS. For 6g a pop (ore).

#2 culprit: Mining gives a [censored]ton of ore. Not by too much actually, but just a bit more than it needs to.

#3 culprit: Hundreds of ingots that are easy to steal. This is mitigateable based on your character roleplay/rules though. E.g. non-thieves don't steal the [censored] ingots.

NOTE: ORE/INGOTS OF HIGHER TIERS (DWARVEN) SHOULD NOT GROW A TON AT HIGHER LEVELS. THE AMOUNTS SHOULD GROW SLOWLY.

NOTE2: SHOPS SHOULD SELL INGOTS, NO ORE.

NOTE3: INGOTS SHOULD COST MORE $ THAN THEY ALREADY DO.


4. REMOVE +FORTIFY SMITHING/ENCH/ALCH

Bad idea: characters under 100 skill should be rewarded for making effective use of their options. Let them pay up 2k gold for the bracers of minor smithing and have it do something.


5. CAP SKILL AT 100

Bad idea: players who want to be lulz 9001 damage should be able to lulz 9001 damage. Who gives a [censored]?

The problem for Skyrim, the game, is not that some random guy tries really hard to abuse crafting to become uber.

The problem is that a regular average player dikes around with Smithing just a tiny bit and WHOOPS, LEGENDARY DAEDRIC like whoa. Oh wait, now 99% of the itemization in the world is worthless to them at level 14. Oh wait, nevermind, they Smith leveled to charlevel 18 and the world has accelerated a ton already. Look how much gameplay experience they missed out on by clicking wait-smelt-IRONDAGGER in town.

I don't feel smithing is OP at all. Sure you can level smithing up to 100 really fast, but all your other skills are going to be REALLY low, I remember a friend of mine tried this on a mage character, went from 15 smithing to 100. It broke his mage character because now everything kills him instantly and his magic skills aren't up to par with the enemies he's fighting. Meanwhile my unarmored mage is destroying everything at the same level he is because I didn't power-level my smithing.

And you missed mine. I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why there should be anything to abuse at all. The system should stop iron gear from progressing smithing at a certain point, end of story.

Smiths do not learn how to make machines by making 100 bolts.
"Congratulations! You've made 254 nails! You can now engineer jet engines! Derp!"

Lol? That makes sense to you?

Uh, a level 14 guy just messing around will not get Daedric armor. At all. Actively smithing and not abusing it, I just got it at level 41.

Getting it at 14 means you abused it, the end. That's YOUR fault, and who cares if they ruin their own game?



Nope, I addressed your point and already stated it would be better if that's how it was. Try reading again. I wish when you got to a level, your smithing for lower level stuff barely moved the bar. I'm not stating it again.

Comparing game mechanics in a High Fantasy world to real life also isn't helping your cause, derp.

no the argument isn't don't use it
don't abuse it

don't go around ruining smithing for us people who just want to play the game because you're too stupid to realize that tediously grinding a skill will mess with balance
you're not playing balanced why in the world would you expect a balanced outcome?

DON"T GRIND SMITHING AND THERE"S NO PROBLEM!!!

take the guy who made armor for him and his compagnion for example
he made the armor, gained 2 levels and can continue with whatever quest he was doing and level up all skills NORMALLY
balanced playstyle=balanced character build
if you're gonna continue to use smithing for no reason other than gaining another 10 levels while leaving all your other skills alone you have no right to complain about balance
you're the one ruining the balance not the game
unbalanced playstyle= unbalanced character build
not exactly rocket surgery

and I don't care you want to play the game like you want to cuz quite frankly your way of playing is stupid and boring.

I don't see why they don't scale smithing XP the way they did magic. The higher you level up your magic skill, the less XP you get for casting lower level spells. If you want to level the skill up any time soon, you have to get higher level spells. If they did it that way (make lower quality items give less and less XP as you level up) then people wouldn't spam iron daggers so much. Sure they'd still be able to spam SOMETHING, but it would take a LOT longer.

1.) Crafting no longer increases character level.
2.) Crafting level is introduced.
3.) Crafting Perk system expanded greatly.(this means the tiers of gear you can craft will correspond to level meaning you cannot sit in town at level 2 and be able to wear Daedric almost immediately and level up however...)
4.) Craftable items increased greatly (along with the ability to craft unique items) - Due to the spreading out of the tiers of gear you can craft, and the massive increase to the crafting perk system, you can craft lots more stuff with the chance of even more powerful gear!)
5.) Crafting materials are harder to come by.
6.) Crafting level cannot surpass Character Level.
7.) Enchanting removed and replaced with Spellcrafting.
8.) NPCs now provide enchants. Enchantments available scale off of level and can be found throughout the world.
9.) Appearance Slots introduced. Craftable Appearance gear assortment introduced.
10.) Smithing, Enchanting, Alchemy increase potions removed. This serves no purpose other than exploitations. Alchemy perk tree and available items increased and reworked significantly.

It amazes me. The people that are so vehemently against fixing this obvious bug are the ones who claim to not use it.
Methinks someone is lying.

What amazes me is that people do not realize that they can get whatever they want by using console commands. So "fixing" the system simply means that for people who want to play the game properly, they do not accidentally end up power leveling and having access to the best gear in the game early on. The argument that astounds me is "well then don't do it!" Yeah...well you expect me to simply "not" craft? The fact that crafting advances character level is ABSURD. That argument holds weight if it is not taking advantage of an exploit I have to go out of my way to do, but what people are suggesting is I have to go out of my way TO NOT exploit. That is what is BROKEN.

REGULAR JOE GAMER WHO JUST STARTED PLAYING SKYRIM DOESN'T THINK THAT HE'S ABUSING THE SYSTEM.

BECAUSE THE SYSTEM GAVE HIM 200 IRON ORE BY THE TIME HE'S BACK FROM BARROWS.

HENCE: THE SYSTEM SHOULD NOT GIVE HIM 200 IRON ORE BY THE TIME HE'S BACK FROM BARROWS.


JOE GAMER SAYS: "Hey, maybe i'll try out some smithing. Ok ... Iron Daggers cost the least materials.

<4 minutes later>: Whoa, Dwarven, cool! Let me buy some more iron.
<5 minutes later> Lol Orcish weapons, they look pretty cool. I can upgrade +8 damage, too! That kicks ass! Let me go get some more iron at a mine ...
<30 minutes later> Lol I can make Ebony. Oh [censored] I'm level 19 too, lol.
<2 hours later> [censored] dude this game svcks, I'm using my Legendary Daedric Greatsword and 1-shotting everything, and none of the loot in dungeons is worth a damn. I'm already level 20/25. My legendary Daedric armor makes me invincible lulz. Skyforge steel ... lol, how dumb."




This.

The problem is not that crafting CAN be broken. That is irrelevant.

The problem is that I have to use a half dozen house rules to throttle my crafting to what I feel is a more "normal" dose for normal gameplay. Not even "hardcoe RP" or any of that [censored]. Just rules to keep the gameplay experience stable.

So very much this.

Solution = Release the Creating tools and all will be alright in the hands of modders.

It isn't really Smithing that's overpowered. It's moreso the stacking with Alchemy and Enchanting. Enchanting is easily the most guilty party in this trio with Alchemy close behind. Bethesda just has problems when it comes to game balancing and put minimal thought into how things will stack with each other.

EasymodeX made one of the best posts I've seen on these forums.

No way is this even remotely possible! Smithing is probably too easy to level, but you cannot be making that higher end armour after just a few hours under normal 'gamer Joe' conditions.

Here's a simple solution, to all of you whiners who think Smithing and/or Enchanting is overpowered: Don't use it.

If you must use it, then up your difficulty. You have lots of options, and none of them involve trolling these forums looking for cheese. It's a single player game and you're supposed to be the hero. It isn't an MMO, so your whining about balance is [censored].

Or just patch the game appropriately.

/thread

It isn't like materials are hard to get.
Google materials. See where they spawn/drop/sold.
Go there.
Acquire.

This isn't like most every other game where the best crafted items are difficult to get, have a level requirement, are relegated to high end zones, and/or take days if not weeks to craft. One day. All of your items. That is pathetic.

Your solution is for us to ignore gameplay content as if it doesn't exist? I would rather I could use this content without it toggling god mode on.

You thinking balance doesn't matter in a single player game is hilarious.

Quite possibly the worst logic I've ever read in my life.

I think the best fix is thus (as i have stated before):

As much as it pains me to say it, Skyrim could take something from WoW on this. In crafting in WoW, as you gain levels in crafting ability, the xp you get from making the easy stuff lowers and lowers, until eventually it is gray, meaning you get no xp for making it. It would prevent lvl 50 in smithing characters from just spamming iron daggers and hide bracers for xp.

It baffles me that you refuse to understand what I'm saying to you.

1. Have not abused it, made mostly Dwarven and Ebony sets.

2. I don't give a [censored] what some kid playing does, if he abuses it, so be it. It's not my game and it doesn't effect anyone else.

3. I don't care if they change it, it won't effect how I play. I only craft high level stuff anyway.

Do you understand?