I agree they're not too hard to get, but your average gamer wants to be playing the game not googling 'iron ore' then spending hours crafting daggers.

Under normal gaming conditions, you need to play for many hours (to either find the ore, or build up the money to buy it) before you can smith to a high level.

We are all playing the same game. So we ALL have broken crafting skills.

Understand?

Yes way dude! I went and started a focus group of my work colleagues and we simulated playing Skyrim like we would do with tabletop DND. I took a stopwatch and followed the group consensus on actions that Joe Gamer would take (things like equipping the axe or sword in the starting mission, taking the light or heavy armor, whether to sneak past the bear or kill it). In the end we got a really good scientific estimate of how long it would take for Joe Gamer to go through his mental thought processes and get a stiffy from a +8 enhancement on an Orcish Sword, following down an exponential road of greed to Legendary Daedric in just under 3 hours!

The answer: don't use it isn't always appropriate. For things like fasttravel it is (because fast travel isn't mandatory to get certain items/quests/etc). For smithing it's a different story. If i want daedric armor i have to make it. So far i haven't seen any Daedric stuff as loot. I'm level 42. So if you say: don't use smithing that means you are stopping yourself from reaching something within the game that you might want. Unless you mean: don't use iron daggers. That's a viable remark. :sweat:

Anyway, back OT: I talked about this with a friend of mine and i had something in mind: maybe keep smithing the same, but after every iron dagger reduce the EXP you get from creating an iron dagger. So eventually you will have to make other items. Or a level lock (iron daggers give EXP till smithing lvl 50). I am by no means an expert in gameplay or programming stuff like this, so these are just 'brainstorming' ideas.

This. Stop complaining about a system you don't have to abuse if you don't want to.

No [censored]. Pay attention, you guys are [censored] terrible at critical thinking.

They keep saying "Gamer Joe blah blah", what they do with their game shouldn't matter to you. It doesn't. Matter. To. You.

It is unbalanced, BUT you don't have to use it. I just got Daedric armor unlocked at level 41 because I didn't abuse the system, and didn't even have to try to. I had no reason to mass make Iron Daggers.

If you abuse it and ruin your game, that's your fault. This argument is like saying because your car can go 100mph and you get a ticket, it's the car maker's fault for allowing you to go that fast. This is a symptom of modern society where spilling hot coffee on yourself gives you the right to sue for it.

Personal responsibility. Use it.

Works too, but they should fix other errors, more important ones.
And with creating tools, the mod forums will pop-up with balancing mods and maybe some "Realistic Overhauls" who will made the player cry like a little girl to up any skill.

Now... It's economically viable buy so many iron ore or I. ingots and make daggers to sell?!

Then why have you argued about this being fixed over the last 4 pages?

I literally installed the game, never googled anything, played for like maybe 3 hours, started buying ore/leather and crafting daggers. Rinse repeat. Never even mined or knew you could mine ore. Realized I could craft almost anything and started laughing.

Restarted, after prologue found Hunting Bow. Stole an Orcish Bow 1 hour later, 30 minutes later found an Elven Bow. Not even trying and I skipped whole tiers of items just by finding stuff...

Youre all making it too complicated. Its not the daedric weapons/armor itself, its not the ease of leveling smithing or anything else. Its the stupidly high fortify smithing coefficient from enchants and pots. For example before upgrading my daedric swords they had something around 90dmg (i dont remember exactly) after upgrading they have over 250 (i didnt even use the best blacksmiths potion, just some weak 20% i think, same with enchants). I imagine that if you get the best potion and best enchants you can easily go over 300dmg. So the fortify smithing coefficient while doing upgrades is like 200% or something. Just nerf it to the ground (enchants and pots) and make it 20-30% at best. Maybe nerf the basic upgrade too (i have no idea how high is it so i say "maybe") . Problem fixed.

Also the "just dont abuse it" argument is really dumb. For example i didnt know that its considerd op before i staretd playing (hard to know if youre playing since day 1). I picked my usual rpg character: heavy armor, sword using berserker. Crafting materials started stockpiling and it was pretty natural to level proffesions, at 24lvl i had over 80 smithing and enchanting, without any sort of powerleveling. Im pretty sure that many ppl did it too without knowing. And what am i supposed to to now? Use some un-upgraded dwarven swords? Thats just funny.

Dude, if you went to all that trouble then you're so far gone from 'average gamer' land that you will literally have zero concept of how they would play....

It's so not about the difficulty.

L2comprehend before you post.

If I were to change smithing and enchanting, I'd make them work the same as other skills, in that there is no automatic success in making or enchanting items, the reason is, I find it odd that most if not all other skills have a chance of failure, where these two skills don't. Having a chance of failure would bring it in line with the other skills, especially the other crafting skill alchemy, as having a low skill means you aren't going to be making a lot of potions, and gives more reason to go out and buy/find them, along with the ingredients.

I haven't, like I said you haven't been paying attention.

My argument hasn't changed. It's the stupidity of caring what someone else does with their game that's idiotic, and how personal responsibility means nothing to you guys.

"Skyrim allowed me to craft high level items when I abused the system, now the game svcks, [censored] you Bethesda" No, it's your fault. Don't do it, and it's not an issue. They can fix it all they want.

Dude, when I post on forums, it's serious business. I wouldn't make a post about Joe Gamer without doing extensive research to model and simulate all the interrelated events. Joe would get angry. You don't want to see Joe angry.

Gear levels with you so at level 15 daedric won't be as good as say when you're level 30. Problem arises when you use + Smiting Enchants and Pots

Sure, definitely. But while they're at it, why not adjust these exploit issues as well? I'm seeing more complaints about smithing and enchanting than about bugs, so I wouldn't think this issue is unimportant.

Just stop vendors from selling any ingots above steel, and fix the skill so you need to make certain items past certain levels. Example: past 30 skill level you need to make dwarven to up your skill. Add a few miner npcs who will give you maps to different ore deposits as a quest reward.

Holy Hyperbole, Batman!?

That's a pile of crap. I'm a packrat who grabs everything he can find. I did not have remotely 200 iron ore from messing around Riverwood.

I explore. Alot. And I've always been a fan of mining (even named my WoW guild after mining.... my main character's been a miner since the original release).

I'm 60 hours in. Using materials I've found in the world, my Smithing just hit 70. At level character level 35. (Probably could have gotten there a couple levels earlier, but I tend to smith in fits and starts... I'll keep dumping the materials I find in a chest in Breezehome, and then I'll use a pile of it every so often).

You do not just "mess around" and suddenly find yourself maxed out in Smithing. And especially not as "regular joe gamer", who doesn't have the whole MMO/Crafting "grind" technique burned into his brain.




The truly "easy" fix to gaining Smithing too fast is NOT TO POWERLEVEL IT.

(A mod that reduced the amount of skill you got off lower-level materials might be an interesting twist. But you'd have to seriously jack up the amount of higher level materials - there isn't nearly enough moonstone/malachite/quicksilver/etc to skill you up to high levels if Iron, Steel, and Leather become effectively useless as your Smithing increases. Yeah, I've gone through hundreds of Iron in getting to 70 Smithing. Had a decent amount of Gold and Silver, too. But everything else (except Dwarven)? Token amounts. A few dozen at best. Having to level out 50-100 on Malachite and Moonstone would be impossible without buying it in bulk from the vendors. Which is what, in theory, people in this thread are trying to limit.)


edit: now, my experience is in going up the Light Armor side. Obviously, if I'd gone Heavy, I could use the 200+ Dwarven Ingots I've found in Dwemer ruins. The light armor side of the skill tree doesn't have that.)

A minority of Skyrim owners griping doesn't make it important. Remember, the people on this forum aren't the majority of the gamers playing it.

I already have 100 Smithing crafting Iron Daggers on my Warrior.
So what now?

The most obvious fix is to have a level requirement to unlock perks. A level 12 has no business crafting Ebony armor and weapons and so on

Easiest possible fix: just do smithing when you feel like improving your weapon every now and then or creating a new armor after having an old one for a while. Don't mass produce items just for the sake of levelling.

That's how I do it and it feels nicely balanced

It's balanced if you use the system properly and the way it's meant to be used. If you "cheat" by abusing the system, then pay the overpowered consequences yourself!

I installed the game and played for a few hours, never googled anything, started finding ore and buying some ingots, made what I wanted to use there and then - and never even considered making iron daggers!

After a few more hours of gameplay, I went back to craft some newer things using the materials I had built up since the last time. At about this stage I noticed that smithing lvled pretty fast, but it never crossed my mind that it'd be a good idea to repeatedly craft iron daggers to rush my progression (because it obviously wouldn't be a good idea).

You chose to power level, good for you.