I'm sorry, but if people can strengthen the Aedra via "myth". They could do so for the Daedra. They are the exact same. The Aedra just created mundus. And, and this is just my opinion, Daedra are more commonly worshipped. The Aedra are only worshipped by the Imperials and thier pals. The Mer and a large portion of men worship Daedric Princes (though often in secret).

And I've never said Akatosh is weak, he just isn't as strong as a Daedric Prince. Unless the lore has lied to us (which I believe we were told wouldn't happen - though it would be nice if it did, imo), the Aedra are weakened by the creation of Mundus.

The way I view it, the Daedra and Aedra were the same. The Daedra, however, didn't take part in the Convention, and I think that's why the Aedra can be shaped and possibly empowered by myth, because a part of them was given up on creating the Mundus where mortal myth exists. There's little evidence that worship strengthens the Daedra, it seems to point to the idea that they just love the attention.

The other idea is that perhaps there is a cap to how empowered the Aedra could ever become, that perhaps no matter how much they're worshiped, it can never make them more powerful than they were before the Convention, because perhaps it's simply giving them some of the power that they gave up in the first place.

But, even if your theory is correct, the Aedra are seen as weak. Lore books will tell us that the Aedra where crippled during the creation of Mundus. If they are as powerful as the common belief, they wouldn't be very powerful, at all. I mean, they aren't exactly as weak as a mortal, but by god standards, they are pretty low down there in terms of power.

Some are seen as weak, but not Akatosh; he's seen as the being who keeps the barriers strong, keeping the Daedra out, and seen as the one who enabled Tiber Septim to conquer Tamriel and Alessia to defeat the Ayleids. He is seen as embodying invincibility.

Do you have a source on that?

I always thought the Aedra worked together (in which case, they are pretty strong), to hold the barrier against the Daedra.

I still don't believe that the Aedra can be made stronger by myth, however. I just don't see your evidence.

As far as I've seen, I'm not sure if they can do anything without myth.

Edit: Whether or not someone is worthy of receiving a blessing depends on the world's view of the person, for example.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Trials_of_St._Alessia

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Amulet_of_Kings

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Gods_and_Worship

Akatosh is powerful. No more proof other than his past events and the defeating of Dagon are needed to believe it. Akatosh held up the barrier between Oblivion and Mundus. Also, Akatosh is a god acknowledged in every Tamrielic religion, meaning he's got a lot of myth and faith to help him. Where's the proof that myth shapes him? There is no proof, but a critical part of Elder Scrolls lore is speculation. Being responsible for the entire Tamrielic empire makes his power pretty clear.

As Samuel L. Jackson would put it: Dragons on a motha [censored] plane(t).

:lol:

Other than that one voiced rumor in Oblivion that says Daedra worship has become prominent/prevalent in the Summerset Isles, and the Temple in Morrowind, I'd say most Elven races worship the Aedra more. Even the Altmer worship Y'ffre, Auri-el, Stendarr, and Mara.

If anything, I'd say the Daedra are mostly respected out of fear, seeing as how they are known to interac with the mortal plane, speaking openly to people and depositing relics every now and then. The Daedra are tangible and through their appearances, mortals know and respect their power.

The Aedra on the other hand, are respected as creators and teachers. From Yokudan to Atmoran mythos, the Aedra are revered not for butting in from time to time but for being progenitors and forerunners, teaching the mortal races secrets for survival and gaining power. The et'ada too, servants of the Aedra (please, dear God correct me on that if I'm wrong) act as the tangible guardians, stepping in to lend aid and save the day.

No, I'd say the Aedra have significant power. They just choose not to use it.

And for the sake of redundancy, Akatosh was the first of the et'Ada to form. These are the spirits with personalities. Time's the greater spirit from which others learned of their existence. The Yoku didn't name him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfjF4yr8GVA (rap's how he put the stars up there) for not-a-reason: Following his lead, the other gods learned the 'Walkabout', or a process by which they can persist beyond one lifetime.

Because even Dagon/etc. learned his gait from the Tall Papa's rubric.

Is it me or is the Redguard belief of destruction to make way for the new, was played out quite a bit in Oblivions and Kotn main quests.
That those events were to bring a destructive reunion of shor ( or padomay ) through Martin, and Akatosh ( Anu ), and to finish mans dominance over the elder Mer powers.
To in the end usher in an end to the Septims dragon blood based rule, and bring in a new age?

I see it as a throwback to the end of the first era, with many years of pretenders, regents, and retainers to come.

Dagon and Akatosh have history previous to the crisis.

Thats interesting as there have been fights for the throne, if not the bloodline its self in the past.
Regarding the infernal city, it seemed the contention to the throne was more banditry and nordic in influence.
With a small influence on the *bandits* being loyal to one other contender, but no current mention of Septim lineage yet.

It isn't only the yoku. The Cyrodilics have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity.

Someone (the Septims, and I've argued Talos) needed to die, so something (the barriers, and the memory of the CoC*) would be restored.

*Obviously, the plot would have made more sense, backwards.

Aka and Shor are the highest conscious sub-gradients of the Godhead, as they are time and space. Thus their infinitie spirits are larger than the infinite spirits of all other Et' Ada. so minus a finite peice to make Mundas, both of these Aedra are more than capable of [censored] up a Daedra.

Not sure what you mean by the memory of the CoC. How would the Septim line dying restore barriers between Mundus and Oblivion? It was the Chim-el Adabal that allegedly kept the barriers secure, and it was originally an Ayleid construct, was it not?

White Gold Tower supposedly was built by the Ayleids, but I'm not sure about the Amulet of Kings. There's no record or evidence of its symbolism ever being used by the Ayleids, whereas its image adorns the armor and weaponry of the man who stormed White-Gold to slay its king. Nor am I aware of anything that mentions the Ayleids possessing or creating the Amulet. True it's the Stone of White Gold Tower, but I don't think it's impossible that it wasn't always the case.

The Septim dynasty hasn't continued, has it? No. Why? Among the reasons, its last, effective heir and the Oversoul of Emperors were sacrificed to preserve the barriers.

To prevent his inevitable collapse, Akatosh martyred the Champion. In the tradition of the shieldthanes, you become the story-teller; you become mortal memory.

So Martin became the hidden hand of Akatosh, to guide the Champion to the desired vision of events.


At least Nu-Hatta. In the Paravania's labor, Chim-el Adabal (Pelinal) passed from Ayleid (Umaril) to Man (Morihaus).

Akatosh martyred the Champion? I don't remember a part in the game where the PC was killed by Akatosh.

Pelinal passed from Ayleid to Man? How was he passed? Are you saying that he is the mortal manifestation of a soulgem, and that he used to belong to the Ayleids and was passed to Morihaus, who you furthermore say is a man and not et'ada?

Witness. A martyr is a witness. Martin, your love (platonic, or otherwise) and Emperor (well, practically), dies. That's all the maiming, done to the Champion, I can think of.

Morihaus, Fist Breath of Man, is associated with the Alessian Rebellion and taking the Tower. Man, overthrowing the Ayleid.

Yep, Pelinal is the Amulet. It's in the Song of Pelinal.

Pelinal necessitated Umaril the Unfeathered. Think of a government changing hands in a volatile country. Umaril was the old, Ayleid regime, while Alessia was the new, human regime.

Violent revolution is almost a way of life in Tamriel, it seems. How many times have different factions taken over? In a way each new Empire, while superficially a continuation of the last, represents a bloody regime change. Titus Mede didn't get the throne by shaking hands and having tea with Ocato and General Warhaft. I'd bet my last drake on that.

What happened with Umaril was more than just a regime change; I think it was largely connected to the Daedric pacts that were going on in White-Gold Tower. There were Ayleids fighting alongside the Nedes at the Fall of White-Gold Tower.

You're thinking of regime too narrowly, but I was only making a parallel, so whatever.