I'd be a nice twist for it to have Auriel have some part in the creation of this Dragonborn. With what Alduin getting in the way of his "escape Mundus" goal.

Well, that's... complicated.

First off, we need to realize the sort of state Hammerfell is in. Right before the great war, "Hammerfell was plagued by infighting between Crowns and Forebears," and was not considered prosperous. It was already being damaged by a civil war. Then, at the end of the war, the Dominion "left southern Hammerfell devastated." They most likely do not have a spectacular capacity to make war, and, as shown in the "In my time of need" quest, there may very well be some in Hammerfell who side with the Dominion.

Then, you have the problem of how to attack. The Altmer have always been known for their might at sea, and in the great war, we hear nothing of them being defeated on the oceans. A naval invasion seems almost suicidal. On the other hand, going after Valenwood would be less politically meaningful (the Bosmer are, at best, favored cousins), AND bring in issues with the Empire.

Simply put, the Empire has its own plans for how and when to get back at the Dominion, and any hostile actions by the Redguards would interfere with that. If they go after Valenwood, they'll have to pass through military Colovia. The Empire wouldn't be able to pretend like they just didn't notice the armies passing by Anvil and Kvatch, and as the war went on they certainly couldn't ignore the supply lines passing through their lands. They'd likely have to choose between turning hostile earlier than desirable, or entering into another man-on-man war (if half-heartedly).


You see, I'm just not so sure about that. I don't think that the Dovahkiin is an incarnation of Talos - I think being dragonborn is just its own thing, and can clearly happen before doing anything to mantle a god. However, throughout the game, our dragonborn does take a number of actions that seem to be leading towards a mantling of / re-ascendency of Talos. The difference is, I don't think the battle is yet lost, I just think there will be a major mystical counter-offensive by team Lorkhan soon.

What Alduin can bring is an End to This Mundus, not the non-existence of the whole cycle.
If Alduin has successfully devoured the world, another creation will follow and the Thalmor will again be thrown into the mortal form, different from this kalpa or not, but mortal still.

I say that the Empire should get the Maomer on their side. Just offer them Summerset in exchange for helping them destroy the Thalmor and they'd be all ears. Potema's dealings with the Maomer prove that they are willing to make deals.

Yes. Which is why the kalpa cycles are an issue.

Would it be in the Thalmor's best interests to try to eliminate the Dragonborn? It might lead to a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy situation, the Dragonborn ends up mantling Talos because the Thalmor attacks him/her.

Worst case scenario for the Thalmor is if Man begins to worship/view the Dragonborn as a Shezarrine. The Thalmor needs to not inadvertently turn the Dragonborn into a rampant Elf-killer.

So at least the dragonborn is not attacked after the Thalmor realized who (s)he really is.
They have to wait and observe, to calculate his/her role and to see if they can use it.
If Alessia can create Akatosh and bent Auriel into his later human form, I can't see why the Thalmor would not do the similar if they have the chance.

Willing to make deals. Not fight foreign wars. We don't know if the Maormer are in any position to fight either. They could be in a golden age, or their economy and government could be collapsing. We don't really know anything about them.

My favorite Dovahkiin build is a Nord that wears ancient nordic armor and GRINDS ELVES.

Sayaril tried to help the Thalmor. He nearly tore his vocal cords shouting about the blades agents and the traitorous bosmer. Alas, they didn't listen, and failed to accept his help.

In all seriousness, the Thalmor should be trying to recruit him. As a man or mer or argonian with the soul of a full dragon, he's basically the dream of the Dominion.


One of the earlier Dominions actually got the Maomer on their side. Food for thought.

And after they have realized their mistakes they invite him to Alinor and make him the new High King of Alinor or Incaration of Trinimac-the-Brave-What so that no one will get into their way to disintergrate the hub of wheel.
Despite politics and their racist card, this is one of the best solutions. Yet due to politics and racist oppinions, definitely it is the one they will never choose. A shame.

Rome's military was largely destroyed by Hannibal during the Second Punic War. In fact, Rome only held on by being better at resisting sieges, but Rome lost basically all their allies after their army was annihilated at the battle of Cannae. They later launched a battle in Carthage's backyard and it caused panic and disagreement, leading to Carthage's defeat. If the Redguards launch a similar surprise attack, the Thalmor are very likely to panic in a similar fashion. And as far as the Redguards having the capacity, they likely have more capacity to now then they did after hostilities first ended. And from what I understand, they're not exactly terrible at naval warfare. A surprise attack is still a surprise attack, no matter your superiority.


This is why it's unlikely the Redguards would attack unless the Dominion were already occupied.



If all the signs are pointing to it, I'd say that it's about to happen.

I'm not exactly on expert on these things (I'm going off Latin class and History Channel, mostly) but weren't both Rome's resurgence and Carthage's panic somewhat endemic to their culture? Pyrrhic victories are named after the futility of destroying a Roman army, because Rome was such a fertile and populous land, and had a particular military culture that allowed the Romans to reform armies in a way the desert-bound Redguards probably lack. On the other side, the Carthaginians let too many leaders have a say in matters of war, and never gave proper strong support to the military.


Sure, they've recovered since they incentivized the Thalmor to end the occupation of Hammerfell, but there's a large gap between the military might required to, over the course of five years, get foreign troops to leave your land, and the military might required to launch a successful attack against your enemy.

The Redguards, AFAIK, are not at all known for their navy. The Dominion, on the other hand, is supposed to be the absolute best Tamrielic sea power.

And, quite simply, a surprise attack isn't always a surprise attack. If the Redguards go into Valenwood, they're going to have to fight the Valenwood. The native Bosmer are man-eating hunters by lifestyle. Most Redguards haven't ever even seen a forest. I doubt they'd be able to get the drop on the Dominion there.

At sea, again, the Dominion are famed for their naval power, and they know they have enemies lying in wait on all sides. Furthermore, they're a bunch of wizards with super wizard powers (including some forms of esp). I think it's likely they have sufficient sea patrols to spot any sort of Armada large enough to pose a serious threat to their islands. Though I'll admit, I could be completely wrong about this. I know next to nothing about how large navies spotted eachother before radar / sonar. I might be drastically underestimating the difficulty of screening against enemy attacks.



Who said the Dominion would be fully occupied? I was suggesting they send out a few justicar squads to occupied Skyrim, or lend a hand (not an army) to the Imperial reconquest of Skyrim.

Probably either the last DLC or something that happens between Skyrim and TES:VI

The Pyrrhic victories came later when Greece (or more accurately, Macedonia) went to war with Rome. Rome wasn't fertile as say, the Ukraine, but it was fertile enough. What saved Rome was that Rome was really very easy to defend - there was an iron circle of fortresses, former kingdoms that Rome warred with in its infancy, that made Rome very difficult to assail without a naval landing to the south. To properly lay siege to Rome, one would have had to encircle the entire area, which no army in the world at that time had the manpower to do so. Hannibal's victories were not Pyrrhic because Rome suffered true defeats at every turn - Cannae in particular. Carthage lost only a few invalids deliberately placed at his center line, while his best troops crashed into the Roman legions from both sides in a pincer movement. The result was Rome losing tens of thousands of soldiers, a significant portion of their army, and every ally they had outside of the iron circle. But because Hannibal could not penetrate the iron circle, he spent all of his time pillaging the boot of Italy. Rome was able to bide its time and strike at the city of Carthage itself after slowly rebuilding their military force.

When I said the Dominion be occupied, I mean that the Dominion would be occupied by a belligerent Skyrim threatening war under Ulfric, or an Empire who's battle tested and ready for round 2 with the Dominion. Under Ulfric, Hammerfell is likely to secure an alliance anyway, and High Rock, to avoid being cut off, would likely join in. A victorious Empire would be threatening the Dominion directly or indirectly since it is pretty well known to the brass that the Thalmor were egging the fight on. Should the Empire attack, all of the Dominion's resources will be focused on the Empire, leaving their flank wide open to invasion. A smart general would land in the Western part of the island, marching east. It's even possible that Hammerfell might hold a truce with the Empire in which case the Redguards would be receiving aid from High Rock and Skyrim. High Rock does not likely have a bad navy given their geography, and the Nords are pretty good at seafaring according to lore.

So the topic has shifted slightly towards the real round two, where the entirety of at least one side has decided it's prepared to launch a meaningful offensive? Well, that's an entirely different situation. But there are two important parts to realize. First, humanity is going to have to wait a while for the conditions for invasion to be right, what with the devastation in southern Hammerfell and Cyrodiil, the civil war in Skyrim, and whatnot. The second is that the empire has granted diplomatic immunity to enemy spies, and granted them the right to authorize assassinations under certain circumstances (there's a quest in Markarth where you do one). Simply put, it's too far off for me to really speculate on, beyond saying that Tullius Stormcloak is probably going to be the key to humanity's inevitable victory.

Tullius Stormcloak? Typo, or hintings at an enatiomorph?

There's a theory about Tullius, Ulfric, and Dovahkiin making a new talos. I was referencing it.

It's a theory that I would like to see be true, but with every civil war ending it doesn't look good:

1) Imperials win; Thalmor goes in and kills all the Talos worshippers. Tullius bends his knee to the Thalmor.

2) Stormcloaks win; Thalmor goes in and kills all the Talos worshippers. Ulfric gets killed by the Thalmor.

3) Peace treaty signed; Thalmor goes in and kills all the Talos worshippers. Tullius bends his knee to the Thalmor, Ulfric gets killed by the Thalmor.

Either way, two parts of the three will become irrelevant. It all comes down to what the Dragonborn does, which makes me think the Dragonborn will create a Pelinal 2.0 (or perhaps the original, which gets sent back to the First Era?) rather than a Talos 2.0.

Also, the peace treaty isn't an ending. They go back to fighting after you defeat Alduin.

The Bosmer should be easy enough to beat. Start burning their precious forests and they'll start surrendering. Dovahkiin and Odahviing could probably beat the Bosmer by themselves. Fireballs and Dragon breath.

That's like saying, "Religious extremists should be easy to beat. Bomb their holy palces, and they'll start surrendering." If you went after the trees, the Bosmer would go ape[censored] and throw a massive wild hunt on you. Plus, living forests are waaay harder to burn down than smokey the bear led you to believe.

The Khajiit should be easy enough to beat. Start blowing up their precious moons and they'll start surrendering.

Oh wait.

Dragons dude. We're not talking about normal fires either. The more tropical areas wouldn't burn though.

Start burning down their precious moonsugar plantations...

Wait, hold on. I just got a beastly plan. The Empire starts growing Moonsugar, cuts it with something poisonous, and ships it all to Elsweyr. It's a sneaky underhanded way of killing a few of those drug addicted furries.

Yeah. I can see this happening, though i'm hoping that it all ends in a win. It seems to be a running theme that anything you do in an Elder Scrolls game turns to feces a few years/decades after the fact. In Arena you save the Emperor, but the damage to the unity of the Empire by Tharn never truly heals and Uriel spends the rest of his life trying, with it eventually poisoning the people against his sons. Daggerfall ended with the Warp in the West that while 'helpful' to many, was also as bad in some ways. Morrowind got the Red Year. After Oblivion, we 'saved' the world, but the Septim line was gone and the world began the slow descent we see in Skyrim.

As much as I want everything to turn out well, the pattern woudl suggest something out of the left field or a Thalmor 'victory' even if only in the short term.

Also, unless it is all resolved in a fairly hefty DLC (not impossible) I don't see them doing away with the Thalmor offscreen after all that has been built up in Skyrim. We have only the spies and a few patrols. It would be a real waste to have them 'beaten' and history by the next game. They have been given several times the exposure and a fraction of the screentime that the Sixth House or Mythic Dawn got.