I only played the demo of F1 so I don't have experience with F1 &F2 to draw from but for me F3 is not hard to survive. Sure you can put it on the very hard setting which ramps up the damage enemies do to you and nerfs your damage but that is just one factor in the difficulty so it's impact on how hard the game is is limited. You still have the gimped enemies, their largely pre-trashed armor & weapons thus handicapping them further, prolific ammo, weightless ammo, insta pause n heal pip boy doctor, VATS which can get you out of pretty much anything seeing as your damage received during it is way below your realtime ratio taken from wikia. Oh what else?.......That's enough for now.

Because Beth owns Fallout 1 and 2 now, and with it, its acerbic fanbase.

Also, what Ausir said. Fallout 3 is my least favorite of the series. :fallout:

Provide ideas to make F3 a better game?

It's a way to vent your frustration for one. If you immensely enjoyed a game series and you find that the latest game in that series makes the series shift in a direction you do not like much, wouldn't you want to voice your opinion? Or do you actually believe forums like this are only here for the Shiny Happy People that agree with everyone and are completely euphoric with everything the game offers?

Yes, but just to give a sense; when you were in towns the time in Fo 1 and 2 was in real time.

If we chase all the shiny happy people out, will Bethesda think that we're their target audience?

One can only hope. LOL!

I see your point. But in terms of capturing the difficulty of living in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, I don't think that you can't compare the difficulty of the two games because of their different styles.

For me, FO1 and 2 captured the difficulty of trying to survive in a post-apocalyptic wasteland. The FPS that did the same for me was STALKER. All three followed the fundamentals of living in a post-apocalyptic world. Scarcity of supplies, difficult monsters and enemies that were all out to get you, dog-eat-dog mentality, etc.

But FO3 doesn't have that. Everything in the game was designed to make it easy on the player. Which is good in a way. At least more people can play and have fun with it. But gamers who are used to more complex RPGs and FPSs will find it less challenging. And a post-apocalyptic simulator where you don't need to try to "survive" is not a very good one.

EDIT:
But okay. To be fair. I do like drinking out of toilets and scouting out a raider encampment before launching an attack. That's very post-apocalypse survival 101 to me. But lord, any sense of immersion is thrown out when the game mechanics come into play.

Oh really now? Put on leather armor and go to a raider camp, then go back with Power Armor. Notice any difference?

Hmm survival seems easier, what with the limitless ammo and the ability to chug stimpaks without any tactical consideration (you magically freeze time). I've died countless times in FO and FO 2 due to biting off more than I could chew, and even when I get PA, which properly has that aura of nigh invulnerability to it. I could still get torn down by a bunch of guys with Gauss Rifles or some really heavy weapons. So, you're kinda full of crap in saying "no Deathclaw pack or Enclave outpost can stop you", they can. FO3 you'd get the same, although with RT and the AI it's kind easy to mess them up and just have them bum rush me to their doom. As for radiation...eh, if you think that's a threat, sure.

Only while reading, waiting, or when on the overland map, and there, the travel time changed with the terrain. In regular exploration it was closer to normal.

What you call 'blind disdain' is not so blind at all. Some look at Fallout 3 and find it lacking for things blatantly left out (or never considered to be put in); Now, when a few of those things are your primary points of interest in the series ~and they're gone... Why care if the rest of the game is any good? What's the point in playing, if what you want is no longer part of the experience? That's not disdain, its despair.


This is the official forum of the Fallout series. Fallout 3 had two games before it (and might possibly have two games after it); That's reason enough in my book.

I have found that in ANY RPG, the player eventually gets to a point where the game isn't really challenging...... Well, except perhaps for vanilla oblivion, where the world leveled with you, but, that wasn't really a good solution either.....

In Fallout 2, radiation was basically a non-issue. There was only ONE place where it was a factor.... The Glow.

Actually, I like FO3 better than the first two games. Does that mean it is a better game? Nope. It is all just a matter of personal taste. I did like the depth more of the first two though..... Dialog could really use some improvement in FO4......

The Glow was in Fallout 1. And I already explained why radiation was basically a non-issue. And because of that doesn't make sense for radiation levels to be so high in FO3.

I personally like Fallout 3 more only because my opinion is biased seeing as that I've never played any of the other Fallout games (let alone never heard about it until I looked on the forums).

Meh...by level 10 I have thousands of rounds of ammo for various guns, had over 10K caps and a hundred or so Stims. I was in no danger of dieing. Infact in my very first playthrough I just finished yesterday my goody goody character explored everyplace and got everything without dieing once. Thanks to the extensive bedding left behind by most enemies and the one hour sleep heals all thing. that you can do even if you didn't clear out the same level just the local area you don't have to use stims readly all that much. If you put alot into repair early and fix up all the stuff you find you can quickly sell it to vendors for big caps or clean them out of all ammo and stims with some left overs or nothing out of your pocket. Fast travel and your house largely make it imposible to have to "survive the trip back" as if you find yourself low on meds or whatnot you just fast travel back and you can cure all rads with a click of a button. Addictions are also easy to deal with with very little consqences. Thanks to chep or free (you chem lab in your house) insta-detox mechanics so there's nothing stopping you from downing drugs constantly in every fight. Plus you get so many of these drugs you can down them evey battle and still have them left.

Armor really doesn't do all that much. Thanks to VATS and some thinking, I've taken evergreen mills with barely any return fire. Plus thanks to it making you INVINSIBLE close range battles are a breeze. run out of AP? easy go around the corner and wait they gereally never chase you right away allowing you to generally get enough ap back to queue up more head shots that kill them before they can shoot back. Hell power armor is a joke, I don't even use it most of the time since Combat armor is just as strong (PA is 40 DR and the ranger armor is half the wieght and has like 39 dr).

By the end before I went to Vault 87, I explored everything and I think final count on some equipment was upwards of 6K 556, 10K 5mm, about 600 missiles, 4K MS, 3K ES, 3K 10mm, 1K .32 and finally only 500 or som rounds for both .44 and .308. I had roughly 800 stims as I rarely had to use them. I really only used them if I dropped below 100 health. to heal I just usually slept on site with the conveniat bedding left and the kindness of the enemy not to explore the otherside of the building while I slept for 1 hour to fully heal both my healt and all crippled limbs. Oh forgot to mention the "rare" fatman I had about 40 mininukes. The "super dangerous" behemoths I all killed from range with sniper rifles or hunting rifles. Thanks to my pertch or extreme range not ever even attacked me once.

Here's an example from previous fallouts:

Senerio: 2 enclve soldier in advance power armor mkII armed with plasma rifles. You in combat armor armed with 10mm SMG. (I'm using an actual combat I had in Raven rock here)

Fallout 2: Me shoot 2 shots and do maybe 10 damage total or a burst and a shot for maybe 20. Them shot me 2 times apiece for upwards of 60-100 damage, to my 180 or so life.
Fallout 3: VATS queue up two bursts on each hit done and watch as both there heads explode from there bodies and the 3-5 shots they hit me with do about 30 damage to my 410.

Hell I've one shot Both super mutants and enclve with the hunting rifle from extreme range. Thanks to sneak attack bonus damage and a head shot they drop no problem. The only real danger I faced is FO3 glitchiness. I've have about 3 crashes an hour. I have to hit the quicksave and save my game every transition point for fear of a crash.

To me, I think they DEFINITELY did some things right. Obviously, I'm arguing limes to a group of lemons, but I cannot EVER play a turn-based combat game. To me, it HAS to be real time or something close to it. Turn based games are non immersive, and when I have played them (all 30 minutes of it) I am constantly thinking about things other than the game, which ruins it. Roleplaying for me (until FO3) was something left for our bedroom (yes, that is what I mean), not in a game. Now that I have experienced FO3, the first person perspective allows me to actually roleplay come and not just sit there playing an FPS. So to me, introducing first person into the Fallout universe was the best move anyone could have made.

This post is all OPINION. Don't take it as bashing FO1 and 2.

The trick is on you. Real immersion comes from excellent writing or thematic values(re atmosphere). Turn based rules only have a limited impact on immersion, and is subjective at that.

There have been turn based games where I was exceptionally worried about my characters, because I knew each turn could be their last, and you never knew if moving them to that spot was going to get them killed. The same style of game in real time didn't have that impact on me. Does that mean real time is less immersive? No, just that the newer game didn't capture the tension of the original.

Andaius-

all the "problems" you attribute to fallout3 can be instantly taken away with one word: OPTIONS.
you can play the way you do or you can use the optional aspects that Bethesda has included in fallout3 to make the game much more difficult.

creating your own game rules and methods of play does not take away from the game because the developers included those very options to allow for much greater gameplay diversity.

one of fallout3's greatest strengths is that it allows you to change the rules to suit the style you desire.

So you handcap yourself is what your saying?

yes, i use the optional aspects Bethesda has included to make the gameplay suit the difficulty level i want.

you use the optional content to make the game easier (i have an ubergod as well) and i use it to make the game harder.

For me, the first Fallouts are harder. I can't set the difficulty past normal, and I still die really often, which is why fighting always feels interesting. Only thing there isn't any survival in those games, but how there could be? And there, stats of my characters meant something.

In Fallout 3, there is some survival elements, but not so many there should and could be. Like, no need to fulfill any humane needs, like hunger and need to sleep. Then, you can carry infinite amounts of stimulants that repair every problem, even middle of combat. Then, there seldom is enough enemies, they could not be killed in couple of short V.A.T.S sessions.

EDIT: As the for enemies, to be as godlike myself in previous games, I had to play for reaaally long, and I don't think I have achieved that level yet. In Fallout 2, for example, it is pain even seeing a Enclave trooper. I agree that with long enough gameplay, they would be easy. But in Fallout 3, Enclave or any enemy is not even worth of attention after 5-6 hours of active playing.



So, it is a solution? I should do make it harder to myself, when the game makers don't?

I've yet to play the first two games, but I can't imagine a game that recreates a post-nuclear landscape better than FO3...


I really want to get the other two, but I'm running Vista and can't seem to find a copy anywhere. Anyone got any hints?

By your thinking, all games have options. I can play fallout 2 blindfolded, or attempt to complete oblivion using only the iron dagger (this is possible). A game simply isn't challenging when you have to handicap yourself to make the game challenging. Also fallout 3 doesn't pose any challenge once you reach lvl 20. That is why I avoid leveling up because there is some degree of difficulty early on.

@osheao & others
Have you ever played Dawn of War? (for example).

[Mechanically speaking] "Dawn of War" is to "Winter Assault", somewhat as "Fallout" is to "Fallout 2".

Now "Dark Crusade" did quite a change to the game mechanics, but still left the core game.
I doubt anyone bought Dark Crusade for anything but the expanded game mechanics. Had it replaced the established mechanics with an entirely new system ~what DOW player would want it?
[The catch here is "DOW fan" not "Warhammer fan"; Some fans would buy anything with the Warhammer label on it. ]

Now the [only!] problem I have with Bethesda's new Fallout is that it replaces the entire gameplay experience with a different one. (some would even say a diametrically opposed one). Doesn't really matter if its [also] fun, its not the right kind of fun. Its like watching a Jackie Chan movie with EPIC writing and astoundingly good acting.... but with CGI stunts; It does not matter how awesome the visuals, or how epic the story, the point of seeing a Chan movie is to watch him do all those stunts himself (consider it the core experience), and such a movie would not have it.

Well, a game doesn't actually have to be a real challenge to be enjoyable. I think that's what has made most popular games popular, the fact that they're fun without becoming frustrating. And you're really speaking for too many people when you say "most people avoid leveling up". Most do? I highly, highly doubt this. Maybe you know some people who do this, but your mentioning of it is the first I've ever heard of it and I've read extensively on the subject of FO3. So...yeah, whatever you're trying to say here applies mostly to you and not to the majority of people playing (and enjoying) the game. It's quite difficult the first time through if you're not using any guides or such, I don't care who you are. Try to find the Alien Blaster without a guide, or all the bobbleheads, or how to complete the MQ. It's a challenge for sure.

Are you confusing fun for difficulty? Read my post again, and since some people are really sensitive to what people say, I edited my post for you.