Post update EW

Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:42 am

Can anyone verify if the vendors are carrying more energy weapons ammo? Other than Novac, and Silver Rush, no one really sells any decent amounts of ammo, not even the brotherhood of steel barring the ammo cache that respawns in the front.

Try the supplier at the Hooverdam I picked up a few hundred micro-fusion cells from him, you can also check the Crimson Caravan they'll stock energy rounds from time to time. I think I got some energy ammo from Johnson Nash In Primm.
By the time I reached Vegas I had a lot of energy weapon ammo so check the vendors from goodsprings to Vegas following the route used in the main questline.
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Dragonz Dancer
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:01 am

They are DEFINETLY selling alot more energy ammo everywhere.. its still less then bullets but its a very noticable boost.
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CSar L
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:10 am

Has anyone noticed whether the Laser Rifle Beam Splitter mod has been fixed? Wiki still says it's bugged.
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lolly13
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:49 am

I might have been a little quick on judging the plasma weapons after the patch, I guess the Multiplas rifle might still be quite useful on hard/very hard difficulty (but I still see no use whatsoever with the Plasma Defender or Rifle).

But there's something bugging me about the Q-35: when the weapon is stashed in a locker, it displays a DAM of 61 and a DPS of 154 but when I pick it into my inventory it displays a DAM of 41 and the same DPS (currently playing on the 360 version).
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Sudah mati ini Keparat
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:19 am

I might have been a little quick on judging the plasma weapons after the patch, I guess the Multiplas rifle might still be quite useful on hard/very hard difficulty (but I still see no use whatsoever with the Plasma Defender or Rifle).

But there's something bugging me about the Q-35: when the weapon is stashed in a locker, it displays a DAM of 61 and a DPS of 154 but when I pick it into my inventory it displays a DAM of 41 and the same DPS (currently playing on the 360 version).

I have the same bug with all most all weapons
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Jessica Lloyd
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:34 am

I might have been a little quick on judging the plasma weapons after the patch, I guess the Multiplas rifle might still be quite useful on hard/very hard difficulty (but I still see no use whatsoever with the Plasma Defender or Rifle).

The Plasma Defender is actually really powerful for a pistol, and when used with a bunch of VATS perks and loaded with MC ammo can do ridiculous amounts of damage in a short period. Used in free-fire mode it is a bit lacking due to the inherent slowness of plasma projectiles. You can also get one fairly early on by swiping it from the Silver Rush (TIP: drag it into the back hallway and then pocket it, nobody will see you even if you're not sneaking), which gives you one of the strongest pistols in the game at a low level.

The Plasma Rifle, on the other hand, is still a bit weak even after you mod it and load it with MC ammo, but then that's due in no small part to the presence of the Multiplas Rifle and the Plasma Caster rather than any inherent problems with the weapon itself. Sure, it could probably stand to cost a few points less in VATS and hit a little harder, but in trade it works really well as a CQC weapon whereas the Laser line is better at long-range combat. It doesn't help that Laser Commander is a far superior perk to Plasma Spaz, and I ended up modding the latter to work the same way so that it can work outside of VATS. The Plasma weapon I would consider to still be underpowered is the Plasma Pistol, but then that's a similar situation to the rifle due to the Defender being available so early.

There's also ammo consumption per shot to consider, when that is taken into account some of the more mundane Plasma weapons don't look so bad since they use 1 round per shot while the better stuff is using 3 or more. In my EW overhaul I eliminated most of the 'multiple cells per shot' costs, and that really shows the differences between the lower and upper tiers of weapons since they can be evaluated on an equal ammo footing. The fact that there are few mods available for EW on the whole does not help, since that limits the ability to improve the performance of the lower-tier weapons.
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Elizabeth Lysons
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:35 am

I did, they still svck.
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My blood
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:03 am

I did, they still svck.

Care to back up that statement? Or did you simply equip a laser pistol and judge the entire weapon group from that.
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Tyler F
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:14 am

Care to back up that statement? Or did you simply equip a laser pistol and judge the entire weapon group from that.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb319/joniscrazy/fafa.jpg has every unique EW, they all seem to do exactly what they did before the patch. OC ammo doesn't seem to make a difference either.
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liz barnes
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:47 pm

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb319/joniscrazy/fafa.jpg has every unique EW, they all seem to do exactly what they did before the patch. OC ammo doesn't seem to make a difference either.

The AER14 Laser rifle deals 36dmg per shot, 40 with laser commando, thats double from before the patch. The regular laser rifle deals about the same damage as a marksman carbine. Most every energy weapon now deals more damage then before and others have reduced ammo consumption like the multiplass.
So your either a liar, lack the patch, a mod is interfering with your game. Or maybe your trying to compare guns and energy weapons when one skill is 100 and the other is 10.
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Louise Dennis
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:00 pm

the laser rifle beam-splitter still does not increase overall rifle damage, at least from what I saw.
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Austin England
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:54 am

the laser rifle beam-splitter still does not increase overall rifle damage, at least from what I saw.

That bug existed pre-patch and still hasn't been fixed. Still the regular laser rifle deals 23dmg instead of 15, the focus optics still adds 3dmg. I wouldn't use it on a pack of deathclaws but I had no trouble mowing down fiends, legion and giant radscorpions with it. Was quite surprised how well it ripped through giant radscorpions, probably the higher critical rate.
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Sheeva
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:07 am

The AER14 Laser rifle deals 36dmg per shot, 40 with laser commando, thats double from before the patch. The regular laser rifle deals about the same damage as a marksman carbine. Most every energy weapon now deals more damage then before and others have reduced ammo consumption like the multiplass.
So your either a liar, lack the patch, a mod is interfering with your game. Or maybe your trying to compare guns and energy weapons when one skill is 100 and the other is 10.

Actually The AER is the only unique that I got after the patch. I don't like your tone either. The changes were so small i didn't even notice, and EW are still underpowered. Xarnac was my favorite build/role-play in 3, its my least favorite in NV. Not to mention the crazy bugs I've been getting since the patch.
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evelina c
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:57 am

Actually The AER is the only unique that I got after the patch. I don't like your tone either. The changes were so small i didn't even notice, and EW are still underpowered. Xarnac was my favorite build/role-play in 3, its my least favorite in NV. Not to mention the crazy bugs I've been getting since the patch.

You didn't notice the weapon deals an extra 14 points of damage?[16 if you count the built in -2DT] that isn't small, its a 60% boost. The regular rifle deals an extra eight damage allowing it to match a marksman carbine. Are you testing out these weapons without investing in the EW skill first? It sounds like you are. If your skill is 15 your not going to notice much of a difference.
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Dawn Porter
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:03 am

You didn't notice the weapon deals an extra 14 points of damage?[16 if you count the built in -2DT] that isn't small, its a 60% boost. The regular rifle deals an extra eight damage allowing it to match a marksman carbine. Are you testing out these weapons without investing in the EW skill first? It sounds like you are. If your skill is 15 your not going to notice much of a difference.

I already said that I didn't pick up the AER until after the patch. I have over 1000 hours in NV, I'm not a noob. I have 100 in EW and all perks and I'm level 30. EW still svck IMO. Does http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb319/joniscrazy/2221-1-1.jpg look like he has a 15 in EW? Nope, http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb319/joniscrazy/fafa-1.jpg is an EW master.
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Rich O'Brien
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:24 pm

For a player in a pro sense I don't know as have yet to replay with EW's since the patch and had absolutely no issues with them before hand.

Pro NPC I say they have been ramped up a fair bit, losing half your health 150+ hp to a single fiend with a laser rifle without crits despite having a DT of 30+ is highly annoying.
Then again I'm getting that against every weapon this build post patch.
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Roanne Bardsley
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:18 am

Actually The AER is the only unique that I got after the patch. I don't like your tone either. The changes were so small i didn't even notice, and EW are still underpowered. Xarnac was my favorite build/role-play in 3, its my least favorite in NV. Not to mention the crazy bugs I've been getting since the patch.


It's true that most EW lack the strong punch that some conventional weapons possess but you should remember tha EW weapons, mainly lasers have a much higher critical rate, you can get up to 30% of criticals success with the proper setup and perks, and depending the EW you use you can have a crit multiplier that varies from 1 to 2,5.

Also, I don't want to disrespect you or think that I'm picking sides, but unlike you, Lord Vukodlak had been checking a lot EW pre and post patch, he did even once made Emperor Sawyer coming out of his Golden Palace to clarify about EW and mentioning correcting them in the patch ( well, also thanks to MadCat221) while you only posted a pic of a dude called Xarnac which have a ulgy blue manga hair color ( :tongue: just joking man).

But it's true that EW in this game are somehow a disappointment, it's like the devs didn't knew what to do with them... which is kinda baffling, since part of the team did work on Fallout 1&2, two games that showed energy weapons with the highest base damage & the highest top damage in the entire game with a setting showing that the laser weapons were the lesser dmg dealing, plasma weapons being the medium and pulse weapons being the highest damage dealer.
To be honest I can't understand why they couldn't continue with the same approach for this game, there was nothing wrong with it.

This patch did help a bit improving things, but I really hope that Obsidian/Bethesda continue to improve the EW overall sensation with the next batch patches or DLCs and give us a much more satisfying feel while using EW.

I rant, I rant but I still use my EWs, love them. :shocking:
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DarkGypsy
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:25 pm

It's true that most EW lack the strong punch that some conventional weapons possess but you should remember tha EW weapons, mainly lasers have a much higher critical rate, you can get up to 30% of criticals success with the proper setup and perks, and depending the EW you use you can have a crit multiplier that varies from 1 to 2,5.

Also, I don't want to disrespect you or think that I'm picking sides, but unlike you, Lord Vukodlak had been checking a lot EW pre and post patch, he did even once made Emperor Sawyer coming out of his Golden Palace to clarify about EW and mentioning correcting them in the patch ( well, also thanks to MadCat221) while you only posted a pic of a dude called Xarnac which have a ulgy blue manga hair color ( :tongue: just joking man).

But it's true that EW in this game are somehow a disappointment, it's like the devs didn't knew what to do with them... which is kinda baffling, since part of the team did work on Fallout 1&2, two games that showed energy weapons with the highest base damage & the highest top damage in the entire game with a setting showing that the laser weapons were the lesser dmg dealing, plasma weapons being the medium and pulse weapons being the highest damage dealer.
To be honest I can't understand why they couldn't continue with the same approach for this game, there was nothing wrong with it.

This patch did help a bit improving things ,but I really hope that Obsidian/Bethesda continue to improve the EW overall with the next patches or DLCs and give us a much more satisfying feel while using EW.

I rant, I rant but I still use my EWs, love them.

1. Its a wig, Xarnac is hairless. His bio is in my "About Me"... does http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb319/joniscrazy/22211121212-1.jpg look better?

2. EW still svck and not enough was done in "un-nerfing" them...IMO
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Haley Cooper
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:04 am

EW still underpowered? What's with the nerf to sniper rifle yet buff to Multiplas? Now the Multiplas does more damage, consume less cells and you can get it dam early.
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Nancy RIP
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:51 am

EW still underpowered? What's with the nerf to sniper rifle yet buff to Multiplas? Now the Multiplas does more damage, consume less cells and you can get it dam early.

I always get a bug where the Multiplas registers as a hit, yet does no damage. Also a lot of VATS bugs in general after the patch.
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Lewis Morel
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:48 am

To be honest I can't understand why they couldn't continue with the same approach for this game, there was nothing wrong with it.

I've explained why the F1/F2 approach was flawed several times in the past, but I'll do it again here: F1 and F2 had phased obsolescence designed into their weapon skill system, but the player wasn't let in on it that design goal at all. The player was "supposed" to use Small Guns, then use Big Guns, then use Energy Weapons, but there's not much in the descriptions of those skills that would indicate a) how powerful those weapons are relative to each other b ) where those items are distributed in the world. So if you set off from Vault 13 for the first time thinking that you might find an Energy Weapon somewhere in the first few hours, you're dead wrong. If you made the terrible mistake of tagging Energy Weapons from the get-go on your first playthrough, you'll likely get nothing out of it for a long while. This essentially punishes players for "guessing wrong".

There are a few ways to address this: 1) keep that scaled skill/weapon progression and staged distribution of weapon types, but tell the player about it. This is problematic because it's the only set of skills that works like that in the game and it also limits the player's options rather than opening them up. 2) get rid of the scaled progression and staged distribution and try to make viable energy weapons throughout the course of the game. 2) is what I tried to do for F:NV, but there were a few problems. First, DT is extremely punishing to laser weapons and, unlike shotguns, there was no antidote to the problem prior to the latest patch. DPS and high accuracy could not make up for the dramatic effect of DT on lasers. Now, of course, all energy weapon ammo types (other than flamer fuel) have increasing amounts of DT bypass in addition to increased damage. Second, distribution in the early game was poor prior to the patch. It was very hard to find any decent Energy Weapons and/or ammo. With the patch, Bright Followers all along the early areas and into REPCONN HQ have leveled lists of energy weapons, so you find more ammo and better weapons much earlier. And finally, I didn't make plasma weapons do enough damage and had them consume too much ammo. Their high capacity was not a good trade-off. So now they do a lot of damage, especially the plasma pistol and rifle, and some of them consume less ammo than they used to.

I fully admit that energy weapons were not competitive with guns (with a few exceptions, like the laser RCW, gauss rifle, and plasma caster) before the patch. With the patch, I think they're certainly competitive from a combat perspective, but they are more expensive to maintain. Right out of the gates, a .357 Magnum revolver is doing 26 DAM compared to a plasma pistol's 33 (which is also negating 2 DT by default). That pistol also holds 16 shots and reloads in about second. The revolver holds six shots and is a looping reload. Add OC ammo into the equation and you're doing 41 DAM while negating 5 DT. The .357 Magnum can hold HP, doing 45 DAM, but only if the target has no armor. And you still have the looping reload to contend with. Both are great weapons. I can see someone preferring one over the other, and that is more than good -- that's awesome. But I really don't think one is a piece of junk and the other is awesome in comparison. You can take the Cowboy perk to help improve .357 Magnum revolver/cowboy repeater DAM, but that's at the cost of a perk, and there are obviously good/great EW perks that the player can take as well.

The plasma rifle/cowboy repeater show similar traits. The plasma rifle is doing 47 DAM to the cowboy repeater's 32. The plasma rifle holds 12 shots and reloads in a second. The cowboy repeater holds 7 (11 with mod) with a looping reload. Both have the same OC/HP ammo progression. And yes, you can upgrade your .357 Magnum rounds to JFP, but that costs a perk. You can make Max Charge ammo with just a good skill and enough ammo lying around. The cowboy repeater's certainly more accurate, and it certainly has a faster moving projectile an it's more durable. Those are all great traits, but I don't look at the two weapons and think, "Man, the plasma rifle svcks compared to the cowboy repeater." And if you want incredible accuracy, a high RoF, and can compensate for (or don't have to contend with) DT, that's why the laser rifle exists. You can also fire it 24 times before reloading, and the reload takes a second.

When you get to the mid-tier pistols, you have the .44 Magnum revolver and plasma defender. I don't need to break down their stats. You know where this is going. The plasma defender is a powerful mid-tier pistol. Post-patch, you can find them on Bright Followers in and around REPCONN HQ. It does more DAM than the .44 (while inherently negating 2 DT), holds more shots than the .44, is more accurate than the .44, and fires faster than the .44. This is a weapon that "svcks"? Really?

I'm sure there are still some weapons that need tuning, but without chalking it up to "feel", I don't get how EWs, post-patch, aren't good/competitive with Guns. If you want them to be demonstrably better than Guns across the board, rare, and only found late game -- well yeah, that's not going happen because that was never part of the goal of the design. If you'd like to mod it, that's your choice and totally fine, but my goal is still 2) above.
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Amy Cooper
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:53 pm

I personally feel like they're fine after the patch. The crit rate on my laser specialist is absurd and with the AER14 the only real downside to speak of is ammo consumption (which I don't feel is a big deal).
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Angelina Mayo
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:23 am

SNIP

Will weapons receive more balancing with upcoming patches?
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Chloe Botham
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:57 am

Hey Mr. Sawyer, I have a question - why are the laser pistols and rifles not set to use iron sights? Is the model simply too big for it to work?
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Ross Zombie
 
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Post » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:16 pm

Nice info there JE Sawyer. :D
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Tanika O'Connell
 
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