When to use or not use sneak is the question? Reading some post and having been very pro bosmer fan I have to ask this to all archers, mystic archers, rangers, and so forth. The secret to using a bow is being in sneak mode this I understand and maybe it is something I am doing wrong but do anyone walk around in constant sneak mode when out exploring or hunting? Or does everyone adjust their slider for view distance up so they have time to get into sneak mode. Reason for this question is I never adjust my sliders and by the time I see a target they have spotted me and going into sneak mode is a waste and I doubt that from a roleplaying view noone would be able to sneak around all day going everywhere. What is everyone's view points on this subject? Thank you for all imputs on this subject for this is something that has also been on the top of my thoughts for years....

2nd to all archer, mystic archers, rangers, and fans of the bow and arrow here is a question. Which areas of magic fits well with the bow do you find? My last short lived character had conjuration, destruction, alchemy, illusion, and sometimes alteration included (the reason for these is in the next question)

3rd and final thought for archer mods. Is using mods that dont use uber power okay for roleplaying stance or considered cheating? For example I would use the mod Conduit_Magic_05-25224 for enchanting bows instead of using soulgems. Keeping the spell (enchantment) on the bow easy to remove when not needed. the 2nd mod I always use is JQ_DM_ScriptedBackpacks-16443 for the simple reason of when in the wilderness a backpack give me the feeling of being prepared. the next mod I always have to run is Ring_of_Wanderers_Rest_Sleeping_bag,_Bedroll-3716 just because I need a bedroll when not in town or near a inn. Of course I run Cobl_172-21104 cause it seems to help improve these mods and the looks of things or maybe its just me lol. The final mod I run while I never use the enchanted arrows (way to over powered) is because it has plain arrows like silver and elven that one can buy and gives me the feeling of creating my own arrows which if you were actually living in oblivion you would do (even though cant find the parts) but gives a 2nd reason for training conjuration. The mod is Vypers_Arrow_Spells_V2-23412.

A pure mage is okay but a archer with magic support is always the best......

My character only uses sneak when dungeon diving or stealing. Never while exploring or otherwise outdoors, no point to that.

He uses a bow simply enchanted with an elemental effect combined with a spell

First: No, I for one don't sneak everywhere I go, but I do seem to use detect life quite a bit. I do most of my sneaking in dungeons.
Second: Since I use detect life a lot, mysticism is one school I definitely use. Also, after a battle I start spamming the "Minor Heal Wounds" spell, staying back until I've healed myself, before engaging my next foe. So restoration is another.
Third: N/A to me?

When I played my bow user characters it all depended on the role and durability, in most cases I was always sneaking because I didn't want to get spotted by anything and if the sneak mode eye glows bright I brace myself for anything and I start turning around looking for the person who is looking at me, so yeah I am always in sneak mode wherever I go, why? I play with TIE so I am bound to run into something dangerous.
As for magic restoration would be nice to boost your damage if you want its very useful, mysticism could help with detection, telekinesis ( if using Supreme Magicka ), I don't consider alchemy as a magical art or magic school but either way its very useful to enhance damage or protect yourself.Conjuration is useful if you are spotted you may want a shield, alteration is useful for defense or walking on water or burden to slow them down. Destruction is very useless or maybe you want to use it when they close to you, then you might want to use only touch spells otherwise its very useless.Illusion is useful, you can use calm/demoralize to take care of the pest that got close ( using paralyze isn't very useful because it drains you of the little magicka that you have and you only stop the person for a few seconds ), silence is very useful in situations. Frenzy is dangerous to use.
Since you are already a stealthy type you probably won't have much magicka so its not very wise to rely a lot on magic, instead buy scrolls and potions from alchemists and shops, they can be very useful to you.
I highly recommend that you DON'T use enchanted bows when you are low level or even at all levels I try to carry a bow thats light weighted, the enchanted are really crappy because they have to be recharged and so on... they are useful on different kinds of characters. Try using Duke Patricks Combat Archery it helps marksmanship, improves it and makes it more less dependant of magic. I use it myself its very good and you don't have to carry many arrows. Supreme Magicka is a mod that alters the magic system its very good but I don't want to force it on you, you may want to try it. Enchanted arrows are different, you should save them for special occasions when you know that the target is vulnerable to that effect or is very dangerous.

I only sneak in dungeons and the like. Never outside, unless I come upon a scene where an initial sneak shot is beneficial to leveling the battlefield, for example, taking out the one enemy who will cause me the most problems, first. I also sneak when I'm deer hunting, intermingled with bursts of running to the next vantage point.

My archer uses destruction when things get too close. And they don't usually get too close. But if they do, I put 'em down as fast as I can, as melee combat is not my forte, at least for the current character. I use custom touch spells with devastating results.

My mystic archer sneaks when there are foes near. She knows when foes are near because she wears a pair of rings giving her 360 feet of detect life. 360 feet is overkill in a dungeon but lovely in the wilderness, especially when traveling by horse.

Her most valuable magic skill is illusion. Contolling minds and disappearing are very helpful. Of course, weakness to poison and drain speed (destruction) are nice. And soul trap and detect life and summoning a clannfear. Oh, and poisons.

We don't use any archery mods and do fine.

My opinion has always been that sneak is the most overpowered skill in the game, before and after chameleon enchantments become common place. Maybe there are kinds of magic that eventually outweigh it, but only after 50+ skill levels gained by casting less-overpowered spells, which I never seem to accomplish. So by default, just doing what the game seems to reward me most for, I sneak everywhere, with the exception of not always sneaking in cities. It's often my highest skill, even though I pretty much never try to make a stealth character. Even in my current playthrough, where I'm consciously trying to charge into dungeons with a lit torch, I seem to end up sneaking into each room to at least get in that one double-damage shot.

My view distance slider stays put where it is, but it's not really close in. If I can have it that far out, why would I drag it in the rest of the time? And if it hurts performance to push it further out, why would I want to start every fight with an unplayable framerate? Doesn't make sense to me. I spend enough time fussing with menus to poison things or select spells I don't have spare quickkey slots for.

I've never tried to specifically build a good mage/archer mix, but I'd say the best spell for archers is detect life. Makes targets easier to see in a dark dungeon, lets you know when something hidden behind a pillar is about to step out where you can shoot it, etc.. I also like destruction-enchanted bows, though I prefer to find rather than make them. Sure, sometimes they'll be out of charge, but you can find charged soul gems in a lot of dungeons to recharge them for free, and when they're drained they're still usable as bows. It's only an issue if you spend a long time away from civilization and have a low armorer skill. I also feel it's not unbalanced to use enchanted arrows I find, since I find them so rarely, but that might be the result of running No Obsolete Loot. Though a severe enough magic rebalance mod might change all of that. The next thing is alchemy, to get even more punch out of that first sneak shot (and as another source of detect life).

The only archery mod I've ever used was a private one that made all the arrows go faster. Wrye Bash also has this as an option in its bashed patch.

I hope that wasn't directed at me, if it was then you didn't understand what I said, if it wasn't then there is nothing to discuss.

Yes Wrye Bash has some useful features, however I like the feature in Duke Patricks Archery mod where you can't use your bow when the enemy is standing directly infront of you and when you are standing directly infront of him.

Luckly there is another person who sneaks all the time like myself ( but I only do it on some characters )

My view distance is only increased for NPC's I managed to reduce the FPS impact from almost everything. Using some mods can have huge impact on your game. So I recommend that you increase your NPC view distance slider but let the other sliders stay low, don't use shadows, don't use grass, view distance should be maxed or at least on the same level as your NPC view distance. If you want to avoid lots of lags get a mod that refreshes your RAM memory which will make your game run smoothly without any restarts.

No worries at all! My comment regarding archery mods was purely and simply directed at the OPs question in his first post. All I said was that we don't use archery mods and we do fine. True enough. :foodndrink:

I would only sneak if I'm in a Dungeon, Thieving, or coming up on some enemies and they haven't seen me yet. I'm still a rookie with the bow, short distance shooting is fine but the long distance shots I'm still working on getting better at those.

Why this question always bothered me is for the 3 main reasons.
1 I wouldnt want to always be in sneak mode in real life and my character always hated this as well
2. seems like when you see someone they already have spotted you due to short range views
3. just felt a marksman didnt have the right to use magic (that idea died after reading about Buffy and Acadian)
and I wondered how everyone else felt about sneaking around if some did it only when they had too or if they were always in sneak mode.

as for the other part of the question about the mods it was more or less just wondering how others felt about mods. The only 2 mods I run for every character is the backpack and bedroll due to the fact my characters never own homes. They prefer to carry what they need and nothing else. 90 percent of my characters feel going into towns is a bad thing and live off the land if they can. When it comes to arrows, repair hammers, and spell making these 3 things force them into towns but leave as soon as they can.

That may be the reason I have never found a perm character is because one is forced into towns for supplies. The latest was a mage that hated to join the mages guild and lasted 5 days lol. My characters all feel that they were thrown into prision for no reason even by the kings admission. They can take his last request of keeping the amulet safe by going into the wilderness and keeping on the move staying away from towns. And to date no character setup can truely do this task. Guess the main question should have been how would one set up this character to avoid towns. Granted one must do the mages guild so far to get the spellmaking.

Although Buffy is very gregarious (she loves her guild and all the towns and has tons of friends), she actually spends a lot of time on the road. In her case it isn't to avoid towns; rather it is constantly traveling to visit her many friends (not all of whom live in towns).

To stay out on the road so much, she has a portable campsite. She also travels with a companion which is a beautiful black mare. The mare has saddlebags and can carry as much as, well, a horse. High skill in armorer (or a good fortify armorer spell) can ensure you only need one repair hammer. Azura's Star can ensure you don't need to worry about soul gems/recharging. Some alchemy skill means you can make your own potions/poisons. Some restoration skill means you can fix anything that is wrong with you. Some alteration skill and/or the Skeleton Key ensures you don't need to worry about lockpicks.

If you further wanted to avoid towns, you could look into the DLCs. Frostcrag gives you the altars and the Thieves Den gives you access to merchants and services (like to buy arrows if you don't loot enough and to sell stuff for cash).

This is sort of like saying that a sharpshooter doesn't have the right to use a cell phone.

I will admit that the more I RP, the less I sneak, and the other way around as well. When I always sneak, it is blatantly about myself and Oblivion, with no pesky character decisions or world logic getting in between us.

You make it sound like your characters don't feel they can go into town, because they were put in prison for no good reason. Is that right? If so, you could consider a new view on that...or a mod that adds a merchant in the middle of nowhere. There are some around. But there's no reason to act like everyone in town knows you're an escaped prisoner, and if you're just afraid someone will arrest you without reason again, maybe you could turn that into a motivation to rise in the ranks of the Fighters/Mages Guild (whichever meshes with your other six major skills) and learn to defend yourself the best you can. Become popular so someone will stand up for you next time. If it's vengeance against your jailors making you hide the amulet, join the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood and make some chaos. Something like that. But if avoiding towns is your goal, mods that make the wilderness more interesting and add merchants to it might help.

There's a mod...Immersive Travellers? Tamriel Travellers? one of those types...which I seem to recall put usable merchants on the roads. It doesn't effect RP and gameplay so much, but you've got to have Unique Landscapes if you're avoiding towns. Open Cities might help you feel more like you're still a wilderness character, while letting you quietly slip into the city walls and visit the merchants nearest the exit. (No more facing a giant load door into Civilization and feeling a bit like you're stepping through an oblivion gate.) That one DLC that adds the house for evil characters includes a merchant in the inn in Weye who might be helpful, if you happen to have the DLC anyway. I don't know if the archery mods specifically address this stuff, or if they assume you're still sociable.

Dont get me wrong out of the many characters I have played from time to time I have completed the mage guild, fighters guild, thiefs guild, dark brotherhood, and main quest. And mainly those character were for the purpose of get the missions done. Different times and not with the same character. Never gave that a thought about joining the mages guild to gain allies. Have to give that some thought or should I say let me next character give that some thought. Maybe even start a investigation as to was there leaks of intelligence and by whom.

Let me explain my thoughts on the not go into town thing. My thoughts was not knowing why one was arrested and meeting the king (aka emperor) and him saying you are from my dreams and this is the day.... Gave my characters and myself the idea that maybe the blades as a backup plan (only the top members) had you arrested incase of a emergency. From a strange view point of the jail cell activities. This gave me the idea. If one was arrested without a reason would it not stand to reason that they have a security problem and if that was the case. The character was the backup plan? Without making this a spoiler is there were leaks in information. So my characters felt that it was best to keep moving with the amulet while the blades sealed the leaks. The safest place they felt was in the wilderness. Should have mentioned this before sorry.

Anyways like I stated before some questions about skills and how to use those skills kinda left me without answers. Like constant sneak and I wondered how others worked around the ideas from the role play sense and general game play. Or was is just something I wasnt seeing like using illusion (which I always did overlook to a major degree). Before I read the forums never gave a thought of a mage using a bow or a archer using magic as normal. Thanks to the great posts I have read now the that question is answered. Why cant a mage use a bow. Who says they cant. So now I am trying to figure out what the best skills and the ones I like to use are and merge them into a character.

To everyone that has gave me ideas. Thank you for all of your help. The insites and wisdom have been greatly helpfull.

Figureing on these skills... Woodelf... Class? (any ideas)... Birthsign Mage or maybe Atronach (always want to try Atronach)
marksman
sneak (only for the first poisoned shot for hunting/dungeons) walk the rest of the time
armorer
destruction or conjuration (like summons and destruction is a good backup weapon)
illusion
alteration
alchemy

Everyone keeps talking about hte "view distance slider" or something. I'm not sure what you guys mean. :confused:

Options -> Video -> View Distance

It sets how far your character can "see" (how far from your character world objects are rendered).


To archers and sneak and such - a good example of how my archers use sneak outside.

The first time Hanna went to Skingrad, a couple of days ago, she of course didn't know what was along the way. She didn't see either of the creatures in front of Greenmead Cave until she turned the corner (they - Imps - were both close to the entrance of the cave, so they were shielded from her view). They surprised her and she had to fight them straightforwardly. But she was a bit on her guard after that. She still didn't know what to expect, but she was wary. She saw an Imp out in front of Grayrock cave in time to go into sneak and take it down in one shot, then she stayed in sneak and looked around carefully. She had reason to believe that Imps were found in pairs, and sure enough, she soon spotted another closer to the cave entrance and took him out with a sneak shot as well. She stayed in sneak long enough to get past the cave, then came out of it when it appeared that the road in front of her was clear. When she topped the last big hill, coming down toward Skingrad, she saw a fire off to her right and immediately stopped and crouched down. She eased up on it and found that it was in front of what appeared to be a derelict mine. She made sure nothing was around, then kept going.

The next time she went to Skingrad (just yesterday), she had a better idea of what to expect. She did get surprised by a conjurer near the Ayleid ruins - she of course knew the ruins were there, but didn't think there was anything around. But when she came up on Greenmead, she knew what to expect and went into sneak and moved off the road and approached it roundaboutly. And, sure enough, there were two Imps there that she dispatched with sneak attacks.

And so on.... That's pretty much the way I handle it. If there's an obvious reason why the character should be wary, then they are. If there isn't, then they're not.

In a lot of cases like that, I play off of my own laziness and familiarity with the game. The character's just running along and I'm only half paying attention when I suddenly spot a tent pitched off to the side of the road. I'm not looking for it, mind you. I know it's there, but that's because I've been over that same road a thousand times. And because I've been over that same road a thousand times, I'm just not paying attention, so that little flash of something suspicious, to me, serves the same sort of purpose as the little flash of something suspicious that a character who's completely unfamiliar with the road might get.

Dungeons are different though. My stealth characters hit sneak the moment they enter a dungeon and only come out of it when they have to and for as long as they have to.

^ Wow. Since I have no idea what you're talking about, this is a good sign. It's something I've missed all this time in the game, which means something new to mess around with! :thumbsup: I"m a very happy gal now!

I'm on PS3 which means vanilla game, so anything new is VERY important!

Slightly off-topic now, I know, but that thing about the PC as the Blades' backup plan is really neat. Somehow I'd never thought of it. Now I want to someday play a reclusive archer, and see how the game is when played like that.

Let me ask this question. As a mage one can summon a bound bow and other weapons and even armor. Why can a archer/mage not summon arrows if one has conjuration as a skill? Would this not make sense from a role playing aspect? This is another question that is hard to answer...



Was thinking that you may have the right idea. One could use the guild to hide out be able to get the items you need and have a bed to sleep in. The story could be once escaping and realizing this is more than one can handle the PC (character) joins a guild to have a place to lay low while gathering supplies and learning new tactics and or spells. And a guild will also give one the latest intel on any new situations that affect the saftey of the amulet. And also have a place of saftey incase of the need of medical attention arises.

I know! Buffy was astonished when she summoned a bow and it didn't come with arrows! We fixed that. She was also astonished that she couldn't make an unlock on touch spell (on target only) so she couldn't magically open locks underwater; we fixed that too.

Well there is no view distance slider in my PS3 vanilla game. It just has a Brightness slider under the Video options. Maybe this is just something on PC versions.

You don't need one. You're on a console; the whole point is for everyone to have the same hardware. So your view distance is already set to however far out it can be pushed on PS3 and still look okay. What people are talking about in this thread is needing to keep in in close for framerate reasons, but turning it up and having a bad framerate temporarily in order to snipe at people from further away. The option is only even there so we can all pick the best setting our video cards are capable of. You've already got the furthest view distance Beth considered playable on your system, which I would guess is far enough out that the slider wouldn't help much.

Shame about the mods, though.

And I think the slider they meant is actually called "actor fade" or something similar.

Considering that sneak doesn't work so well outside, I use it heavily indoors because I love being sneaky and getting sneak attacks.