well, the goal is not to present an alternate life but to make things you do more reasonable so there should be a middle ground

All of these ideas are very good. Much better than the slider they had in FNV. I think the mandatory sleeping should not be only in hardcoe mode for one. Although you can only die from lack of sleep in hardcoe mode. Assuming there is one, that is.

most of these Peripheral features like, cooking, Woodcutting, smithing, farming etc etc should have some practicality in the game no? not there for simple asthetics. to be used if you want to so to speak, I agree with a Fatigue bar that gains after extensive battles, lack of rest, dungeon crawling, curses, etc etc. I'd go for sleep as a method to reduce fatiuge and give a boost to my char if that particular char requires it. healing not so much, if it where to heal it should be culmulative.

Such as day one - after an extensive battle in the wilderness I return to the inn and rent a room for a few nights.

Night 1 I sleep, gain some hp not much.

Day 2 I dont over extend myself just a few odd errands here and there, some light training, still recovering. no battles.

Night 2 I sleep, my hp gain is twice that of last night and I've significantly reduced my Fatiuge bar.

Day 3 I get more done, I'm moving leaps and bounds

Night 3 my hp recovering and Fatiuge reduction have tripled, Im ready to face the world again.


In this aspect Sleep is meant to reduce fatigue and restore hp together instead of binging on potions, which i can happily do, but the fatiuge is still strong, and Potions would only work for so long.

Sure, but I think that eating and sleeping is one of those areas where it's difficult to find a middle ground.

Check out the post by Fedda at the top of this page - some people really don't want it getting in the way of the 'main event'.

On the other hand, I love having to eat, drink and sleep (if it's balanced right... like you mention in your original post, some of the mods for Oblivion were really over the top).

Which is why I think that maybe a toggle would be the best solution.

they dont want to eat and sleep it because they don't have the incentive to do those tasks. In real life, your incentive is being comfortable and the good taste of food. You don't get that in a game. In addition, the sort of incentives provided by realism mods are in fact punishment avoidance. that's not "incentive". Incentive is what you receive for doing something, which in psychology is positive re-enforcement. Punishment avoidance is negative reenforcement, which doesn't work as well.
So, to provide good incentive to eating and sleeping, there needs some really careful designing and balancing. once that's done right, people will not complain about having to eat and sleep - in fact, they don't have to, they just get a bonus for doing those.

If you don't sleep, your maximum possible stamina decreases.

That's enough for me.

<3 <3 <3
My son's favorite childhook book.

because regardless of what role playing background you've come up with for your characters, he is to scared to sleep out in the wild alone. :shrug:

I like how they did it in stalker.

If you dont sleep for a long time, ur vision starts getting blury and wonky. Then later you start blacking out. But you can drink an energy drink or coffee and it removes it for a short while, enough time for you to finish what u were doing and get to a bed.

And it also affects health regeneration.

yea stalker did it pretty well with survival elements

Is.. that a joke? :mellow:

I would imagine getting really pissed, then realizing how cool it was

Stalker is the ultimate survival game.

Deutschland has it right.


The default state of no regeneration we got in Morrowind and Oblivion should be the maximum state of "punishment". The Regeneration should be there as base and its rate should depend on things,

waiting, slow regen,
sleep in wilderness slightly faster regen,
sleep in a bed, very fast regen,
Also it is a fact that a well hydrated and fed person will recover faster. So add that too. It only gets faster, how does that sound?

I always liked the way Betrayal at Krondor handled it. If your character carried rations they were eaten automatically. When you ran out, the game told you to buy more. If you didn't, you slowly began to starve to death. If you slept outside, you could make a fire that would protect you from creatures although you could still get robbed.

LOL. And mine. *Feels old*

I agree that sleeping was pointless in Oblivion. I used to go days, even weeks at a time without sleeping, until I finally decided that I was just going to start sleeping at night for roleplaying purposes. I disagree with this, though:



Maybe this is true for a lot of people, but the real reason we eat and sleep is because we have to. We eat because we are hungry and we sleep because we are tired. I'm not saying that the activities cannot be made enjoyable, but the things we enjoy about them are not why we do them.

When I was younger and more foolish than I am now, I stayed awake for over one hundred hours straight (four and a half days). Don't ask why I did this--it doesn't really matter. What does matter is that toward the end of that time I thought I was going insane. My body and mind were both rebelling against me. It was the worst I have ever felt in my life. When I finally did go to sleep, I slept for about thirty-six hours--missed an entire day. Woke up feeling like I had been freshly resurrected from the dead.

My point is that if I didn't have to sleep, I probably wouldn't. But we need to sleep or things start to get really bad. So while I like the idea of some mild buffs for being well-rested, I honestly think that the best way of representing the need for sleep is by penalties for not sleeping. Someone mentioned above a cap on stamina that would slowly decrease after a certain point until you slept. That sounds reasonable without being too harsh. There were other comments that mentioned blurry vision and other tangible cues. That also sounds reasonable as well--I know from my own experience that after a few days of no sleep your body and brain just don't function as well as they normally would. So, maybe after a few days symptoms like that (and maybe even things like visual/auditory hallucinations, etc.) start to manifest.

If something like this were to be in the game, though, I think it should be in an optional "hardcoe" or "realism" mode. For however realistic it might be, I'm not entirely convinced it would be all that fun.