Straight from Game Informer magazine:

Stop reading now if you don't care. Reply with nasty words if you are in denial.

What this means: We have dozens of combat spells that are all different.
What we can imply this to mean: We have dozens of spell effects useful in combat.
Thus: We have dozens of spell effects
Hence: It would be a waste to have all those effects and waste the low leveled spell effects because we leveled past them.
And: Why would they remove a system that most people love.

Even if you still don't believe me, then ask yourself what the number of spells has to do with spellmaking at all. Have you counted how many spells are in Morrowind and Oblivion? Surely that has something do with our ability to make spells. Oblivion had spell altars and Morrowind had people; must have had something to do with the number of spells. :spotted owl:

If you feel I missed Todd Howard saying on national tv that spellmaking is out, please give me a link.

It's not so much what was in the Game Informer article but rather what was in one of the Italian articles about the game (http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1163214-skyrim-italian-coverage-thread-2/)

It's not so much a confirmation but rather some evidence pointing to the fact that it is possible that spell making has been removed.

It's also possible that it's just a mistranslation in reference to the new dual wielding system but either way there hasn't been anything definitive about whether or not it is in.

Quote from Italian coverage thread:



As far as spreading rumors: It's speculation what are you going to do? Most topics in this subsection are speculation about whether or not X feature is in the game. If that's the case then let's get rid of all the threads except for the ones that have been confirmed to be in the game (not very fun and not exactly productive but if you don't want to have a conversation about it then don't)

Hmmm...from what you quoted, sounds to me like that does not imply actual spell making..but rather a lot of variation with the existing predefined spells - which level up as you do (as I read somewhere)... I am just saying...

I believe people will be spewing rumors about every aspect of the game until it is released and, after it is released, we're going to see a HUGE outpouring of "why wasn't this included!" The main reason for the outpouring will be that most content players will be actually be playing the game, not here on the forum. We're gonna have to deal.

So is spellmaking in or out?

There is evidence (NOT CONFIRMATION) that it is out

See my above post

Well they specifically said you couldn't combine or create spells so that doesn't bode well...

They said you could not combine spells in the sense of dual wielding spells and using them together. When they said you "can't create spells" it could have been a translation error connected to the first point. Direct translations are almost never correct, that's why translators are highly paid, they do more then just translate the language but the grammar too.

And auto-translators tend to do poor with grammar.

Yeah, I'm hoping it was all just a minor translation error. Spell-making was something I really liked in the games.

PS, glad to see another Chaos lover in the community. Khorne for life, baby.

That is not where we are getting our information. The italian article states that spellmaking is out.

1st: Its out according to the Italian interview. Find the thread listed "italian magazine coverage" and start reading. Its a big thread from what about a week ago now? Should be a couple pages back

2nd: If your hope is rational discussion/debate it is generally considered counter productive to use a fallacious argument in support of yourself as it makes you seem foolish (when you are certainly not because you do raise a cogent point or two). For future reference you indulged in the horrible, naughty, wicked temptation of an ad hominem attack (IE johnny is wrong because he's ugly. You cast derision upon an argument or arguer absent of considering it/their argument upon it's/their own merit.) If however you plan on simply arguing then carry on with your fallacies

To explain more fully: when you immediately catagorize dissenters as people hurling "nasty words" who are "in denial" you made an ad hominem argument (which is fallacious and therefore worth about what I paid for it: that is to say nothing). If your intent was to minimize flames and trolls you probably shouldve gone about it in a different manner perhaps by saying something to the effect of "i welcome dissent so long as it is presented in a polite and constructive form". Ad hominems tend to make the bone of contention quite a personal matter leading to more fallacious argument or as the local dialect reads these days "flame war".

Anywho: When you find the thread (cause I've got class at 8am and just aint that helpful) you should find a post with a full translation of the relevent portion of the article (not on the first page iirc) where the reporter asks about spells and other stuff and the Dev in the article responds with 'you can't combine or create spells.' or some such (not an exact quote but damn close iirc).
People wouldn't be this up in arms about something that was not stated quite plainly, AND quite looked forward to and expected by a large number of fans.


As to the argument itself of "why do we need spellcrafting when we've got all these effects?" i give the obvious answer: to combine some of those effects into one conveinent, easy to use package that only costs $19.95 and doesn't require me to do anything (ie menu swapping of spells. yes this includes a favorites bar though that would drastically improve the experience and I am ever greatful for its inclusion) but Point Front Toward Enemy and let 'er rip. Like we could do in MW or OB. If that doesn't tip your skirt up, for immersion purposes then. After all I can chop wood, smith, farm, and otherwise participate in a number of mundane and frankly (except for smithing which has an actually gameplay applicable use instead of playing farmland 3D) uninteresting (in my opinion) activities, so why can't my lumberjack/blacksmith/farmer/Archmage SpellBlade of Light Armored DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM craft his own takes on various spells he's learned from other mages by rote? How is that immersive? The answer? It aint.

It does not say its out. It says you can not combine spells and create new ones. Now I am by no means a translater, but I can easily see a transation error a possibilty. What if it meant to say you can not combine spells to creat new ones? Fire spell in left hand and ice spell in right hand does not mean you'll get a new water spell. I've read the topic, and I still don't see anything really saying if it is in or out. One word is all it takes to change the entire context.

Second, why wouldn't GI say something about this? Why would one and only one mag say this, but none of the others even mention it? Why would Beth give one mag that exclusive information, while leaving all the others in the cold? It doesn't make sense to me.

Fortunately, that means I probably won't be around to see it.

While I'm not naive enough to think that whining about a feature (Or lack thereof) on a forum after a game is released will make any difference, what always shocks me (And annoys me) is how little most devellopers appear to pay attention to their communities. These forums represent the mass audience of the Elder Scrolls series. You want to know if a particular concept is a good idea or not? Ask the community.

Personally, I have no problem with those who rant against or for anything on the forums. If they're taking the time to express their opinion on something, they deserve to be heard.

Bethesda can kill the rumors, if they choose.

yeah

I'm no expert at the English language but I think you just contradicted yourself.

Ha clearly you didn't see the back peddling Bethesda did after FO3 was released and people kept talking about the level cap and the fact you couldn't continue after the game.

If you look at around the time of release of FO3 Bethesda released statements saying "no we're not going to let people continue after the MQ" and "no were not going to increase the level cap".

Essentially it was their response to the community

Of course you were charged if you wanted to "fix" their previous mistake

Here are the number of spells I counted on TES wiki:
Oblivion: Morrowind:
112 or 33 119 or 52

I say OR because it depends on what you count as an entirely different spell. examples: conjuration has 34 spells in vanilla oblivion, but it only consists of bound items and summons, so 34 variations of 2 spells. Are the elemental shields three independent spells or three variations of one spell? So I added it up when you think about it either way. I'm not sure what they mean when they say 85 spells in Skyrim, but thats a really solid number regardless since with perks we get to vary the spells.

Separately, Alteration in Morrowind ruled! jump, levitate, swift swim, slowfall!!!

I think jump and slowfall are very applicable spells for Skyrim's landscapes, bring em back! Levitate can come too : :biggrin:

I don't believe custom spells are gone its is classical feature of TES, at last they can be created in CS if not in game,
or additional magic effects compatible with old magic system,
just spells that we can revive from magic vendors all have scripted part thats defines spell behavior on different targets.
Thats all was done before in Oblivion with mods.
Also script effect that was one features thats was awesome in Oblivion and make it much better, if all spells is hardcoded in engine now, thats significant loss of creativity.
Can Todd make situation clear and answer to question about custom spells and script effect on GI podcast?

what? this again? come on guys, I've already told you, no mistakes from my side =\