I come from a TF2 environment, and I think it's a game made with public servers in mind, so I imagine Brink game from that PoV.

In TF2 public, one of the great difficulties in public servers is that the structure of the game requires a balance of classes to prevail, which is great. However, that need for a balanced team was probably amazingly hard to achieve, and I wonder if Brink will get that right.

- It's easy to imagine a medic to be necessary, but do you think a second medic will be a nuisance? A well received surprise? Or a necessity to have any chance of winning.
- It will probably be inevitable to have at least one or two soldiers, for the ammo. They will also probably compose the base of the team, so no problem there.
- Will an operative be needed? More than one? Or it will become the overplayed lone wolf unproductive team member like the spy in TF2. [My personal opinion, very argued, is that no TF2 team should have more than one spy.]
- An engineer will probably be required for missions and damage buffs. I have no idea of the negative effects of not having any, though.

In short: What are the limits of perfect team compositions you think we'll discover in six months to a year after release?

If I had to bet, I'd say either:
4 soldiers, 1 op, 2 medics, 1 engy
or
4 soldiers, 1 op, 1 medic, 2 engies

Way too many soldiers but that is just my opinion and I will continue this in the morning.

Haha, I was ready to articulate my disagreement with you on this point because of the gravitation toward every class except Soldier, but then I thought about it.

We'll see many Medics, many Engis, and a whole lot of Operatives initially, so I'm guessing people will probably level those classes before they dive into Soldier.

So yes, 6 months - 1 year from now, I'm guessing all the people who played the other classes regularly will be playing Soldier.

It definetely requires class (and bodytype) balance, you just need to adapt to the situation.
If you have troubles with getting to the objective you might consider more medics to revive, or more heavies to take a bigger gun while you might need an extra engineer if you can get to the objective, but always get killed while constructing.
The amount of people that play a certain class will differ throughout the match, depending on the strategy you choose.

It's really not only classes but also bodytypes.
So you need a good mix of both.

If you have many medics, that means there are a lot of possible revives. This again requires many soldiers who ressuply revived teammates with ammo.

Operatives and Engineers are mainly required for their objectives, other than that they only play supportive roles.
An Operative can try to surround the enemy team in disguise and hack a forwarded CP for the buff it provides. An Engineer can buff the teams damage and armour so they can more easily fight forward as Soldiers and Medics and then change to the required class at the forwarded CP.

For an effective push you really want some Heavies in your group who take and deal a ton of damage.
For an effective flanking maneuver you want a light, who causes a little disorder amongst the enemy team with a hit & run tactic.

Hmm, hadn't thought of that. More revives in a low ammo environment do require more soldiers. At the same time, a heavy medic with a gatling will also require more ammo.

So, a heavy medic/heavy soldier pair could work quite well as a mobile base, with lots of ammo, lots of life and the ability of refilling faster teammates as they come and go.

There should be a good balance of all of the above

If there is not you could just go to a command post and change into a different class and weight.

If you're a team that sticks together and works at one objective at a time, a single Heavy Medic MIGHT be enough, but a second would be beneficial.

Anything else and 2 or 3 will be a necessity - preferably at least one Light and at least one non-Light.

Soldiers, being the main source of ammo mid-fight, as well as a good class to have in a fight (especially with some good grenade upgrades), will also be valuable - I'd say 2 of them minimum as well.

Ops, depends on your strategy - they have their uses, but too many will be a liability - maximum of 2 imo.

Engineers are also pretty good, buffing weapons, providing turrets and mines for fire support and area suppression/denial.

Pretty much, if I could put together an ideal team...

2 Medics
2 Soldiers
1 Engineer
1 Operative
2 Multi-spec characters. One of these MUST be Medic/something, the other MUST be Soldier/something - but they can't BOTH be Medic/Soldier.

Hmm, this idea is very intriguing. This could mean a serious increase of the strategical depth of this game. Let me ask a short question before starting a thread about that particular topic:

A multi-class character will have to distribute the 20lvls worth of skills among several classes, right? So one could make a 50% medic, 25%soldier 25%common skills?

it's probably too early to tell. but i think whatever combo gets the most xp will be the most popular.

if i had to predict what will be the most popular classes i think there will be soldiers and medics that will be moving arounds in groups throwing ammo and health at each other.

Medic makes the most xp

Well each class is going to have about 10-ish upgrades, while the universal upgrades will be the rest of the "almost 60" upgrades available (I believe there was a tentative confirmation of 58 somewhere). And for the first 5 levels, you can ONLY buy universal upgrades.

I'd say 50% universal, then 25% each in two different classes is more likely, and probably more useful.

Very true



Precisely.

Now as far as my initial set up

Light Operative/Engineer
Light Medic
Light Engineer/Soldier

Medium Engineer/Solider
Medium Medic

Heavy Medic
Heavy Soldier
Heavy Enigeer

Based on the numbers you guys are giving I will more than like likely choose to play as a soldier first but I'm still torn between that and Medic. In my opinion you will more than likely see a ton of engineers and Operatives at launch, but the Order I see as far as Class popularity is Operative (half the people won't know how to play it but they will choose it anyways) Engineers ( Turrets and free kills for the skill-less) then Medics ( people will abuse this or atleast try to for the self rez ability) then Soldiers ( this class will be for the skilled and those that don't want to follow the mold).

I just don't see what you mean that the Soldier class is for skilled player and those who don't want to follow the mold. Then as in other games i think the medic class will be able to lv the fastest because it looked like revives gave you a lot of exp, pip for pip medics it seems to me can gain the most exp.

Mathematically speaking
8/4=2

8=max players per side
4=4 different classes

2 of each class would seem mathematically ideal
but in reality it depends on the situation and set goal of the team.
therefore class balances would become a nuisance to completing the mission

Also, don't forget Soldiers get the most direct offensive upgrades (grenade damage/radius, extra grenade types) of any class, and can buff teammates directly by handing out ammo (by the way, does anyone know how well the ammo-giving compares to healing for XP bonuses?)

Im thinking ammo and healing should be the same but healing and a revive.

Im confused as to what you mean by "following the mold" here. If by follow the mold you mean playing the traditional FPS role that would in fact be playing the soldier. It is the closest to the generic characters in CoD, Halo etc... you have grenades you shoot (handing out ammo is exactly like the assualt class in BF:BC2) Nothing "mold breaking" about that class. (not saying this as a bad thing, soldiers are essential for a squad to be successful)
Implying that Ops / engineers take no skill is ignorant. All classes will require skill to play well, just different ones.

After seeing your line up like this, I'm really liking it. A lot.
The way I see it now (variations):
Operatives: 1
Medics: 3(2)
Soldiers: 2(3)
Engineers: 2(3)

And then theres the teams with 2 Operatives, but hmmm.
After all that Ive learned concerning teamplay in Brink, I don't know if another one would be needed or not.
Hard to tell when it hasn't been released yet.

As a 3 year TF2 player, after taking a hard look at the classes, the balance will be much much different.
But as far as Spy/Operative, basically the same, nothing changes. But it depends on the situation obviously.
Several times Ive had a team with 2 Spys on it and they end up dominating whilst you and the rest of the team clear everything else out.

I'm going to say you've over estimated the soldier. People are looking at soldiers as "grunts", but they're far more specialized. Any class could make a decent grunt, and the grunt may be better off as a jack of all trades, but that seems to depend more on a mix of body and weapon, with the specific abilities coming further down the line.

The soldiers are demolitionists and beyond that their specialty use is limited. Ammo sharing is only required if players stay alive long enough so it means the number of soldiers needed for that task is likely lower than the number of medics.

Engineers seem more likely as a more dominant class, and the more engineers on the opposing team the more turrets that need to be dealt with which may mean an increase in Ops.

I think 2 soldiers, 2 Engies, 3 medics and an Op is a more likely balance, but that's without factoring in body type and weapon, which will change that even more so.

In short, it's going to be a while before most figure out the ideal setup.

Giving all the different possibilities for character builds let alone the different ways to use those builds I doubt that there will be a single best setup. Also this will depend on the make up of the squad youre facing. So being able to change the squad set up on the fly will also add the variability.
The best way to be successful is being able to adapt, dont think there will be one stock set up that trumps all others. (assuming SD balanced the classes well)

Don't think there will be a "best", but there will undoubtedly be setups that are ideal for particular groupings.

For example, a collection of 8 randoms isn't going to get far with 5 Ops, and one of each of the others, while a team that trains it very well could by finding the right weapons and abilities to compliment each other.

I'm assuming we're looking for an ideal setup for the widest collection of players, and I think there will be a few setups that prove to be stronger options than most.

I completely agree but Im also hoping / thinking that given the variety of the options and the ability to change classes / setups midgame that BRINK will have more than a few good setups. We shall see how it plays out, I feel that every setup has a counter and am fairly confident that there will be enough viable squad setups to keep it interesting.

That being said you definitely dont want to have random squads with 6 Ops, or 8 soldiers etc. And im sure in random matches that will still happen, but I only plan on playing online when Ive got at least 3 capable friends to back me up.

"Engineers ( Turrets and free kills for the skill-less)"
Wrong. Engineers will need to be very careful where they place their turrets to avoid having them easily turned against them and their squad. This will take strategy and skill to make sure that you arent placing a turret within easy reach of enemy Ops.