Neonymbiosis is an obvious one. If you don't get it you're trying to hard.

Neo - New.
Nym - Name, moniker, etc (search TIL for "protonym"). Remember that in a magical setting a name isn't inert, it has a power association with the thing named.
Biosis - life, living, etc.

There are different ways you can link those terms together, but the meaning is basically the same any way you do it. And that meaning fits the context perfectly:

"Enter as Lord Dagon has written: come slow and bring four keys. Know that then you are royalty, a new breed of destroyer, whose garden shall flood with flowers known and unknown, as it was in the mythic dawn. Thus shall you return your first primal wail and yet come out different. It shall this time be neonymbiosis, master akin to Master, whose Mother is miasma."

Or if it isn't obvious from that, think about a neophyte advancing into the higher orders of a religious or mystic group, or think of the symbolism of baptism in Christianity (not intending to start a discussion of religion here, it's an example). Now consider what this means in a world where myth is fact.

Yes - that fits with the idea that the 'true' name of a thing has power over it. Though in this case hard to know which comes first, the name or the change.


Mytheopeic - see Robert Holdstock's 'Mythago Wood' - the first in a series of books where myths gain substance


I suppose that this might mean creed from the non-existance of Aurbis - which, having given due significance to various issues, might boil down to the Mundus and thus: Earthly Creed

Coming into this conversation, we actually already had definitions for protonymics and neonymics, which may help with neonymbiosis.

The Hero of Battlespire gets a rather in-depth explanation while traveling through the Battlespire and Dagon's pocket realms, which can be found http://www.imperial-library.info/tsobs/part05.shtml#Chimere%20Graegyn; they are elaborated on in a journal that can be found http://www.imperial-library.info/bsbooks/harvest_end.shtml. The Hero of Battlespire then banishes Dagon using the protonymic and neonymic, as can be read http://www.imperial-library.info/tsobs/part07.shtml#Mehrunes%20Dagon.

So, knowing all this, I'm gonna have to say that neonymbiosis is just the process by which one assumes a new "Name" that binds them to a realm, disconnecting them from the normal cycle of life and death in the Dreamsleeve. The Daedra do this naturally, as it is in their nature; the ability for mortals to do this was a central part of Mankar Camoran's theology in creating the Paradise.

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Can someone please define Malbioge? It's killing me too.

Neonymbiosis is one's new nature following the recreation of the world - one of the perks of helping to shape reality. On the surface Camoran is promising a reward to his followers, on a deeper level he's talking about something he can never really understand (but the player can).

By the way, that definition is (for the most part) consistent with the one provided by Adventurous Putty. What I said was more of a clarification than a critique. The tricky thing is that Camoran's like a prophet who misinterprets his own vision.

As for Malbioge, does no one read these words in context?

Answers are liberations, where the slaves of Malbioge that came to know Numantia cast down their jailer king, Maztiak, which the Xarxes Mysterium calls the Arkayn. Maztiak, whose carcass was dragged through the streets by his own bone-walkers and whose flesh was opened on rocks thereon and those angels who loved him no longer did drink from his honeyed ichors screaming "Let all know free will and do as they will!"

The myth being referenced is obvious, though it's viewed through a different perspective, and it fits with the tone of the Commentaries perfectly. Not hard to figure out.

Seeing as someone recognized the demonic meaning of a similar word, it certainly makes more sense than 'Dreugh.'

Well, having perused the Monomyth casually while looking for the allegory, I've come up empty-handed -- a sign of my own intellectual deficiency, no doubt, and not your mastery of the Lore. So would you mind bestowing the knowledge of what myth, precisely, that is to those of us with lesser minds?

Sarcasm can be a bitter dish, I'll spit out my birds.

My preference in posting is to give hints rather than answers. This is partially because I don't have answers (any more than anyone else, sans developers, does). I also want to proffer my ideas in a way the compells people to read (or reread) the sources - which is why I was emphasizing context, for instance. I don't want someone to read my (or anyone elses) posts and say "ah, that must be it." I want them to read a post and say "that might be something, let me check." So I'm trying to set it up so that anyone who pays attention to me (which may be no one), will have to look it up.

And the Monomyth was the right place to go (although there are other sources as well). I thought a mythical figure being dragged to his death corresponded well to:

http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/monomyth.shtml#Altmeri

I wonder where the hell MK got those words from. I understand why he used them, but I find words like "Lyg" and "Maztiak" extremely interesting.

Though the Celtic god Lugh is pronounced differently, I wonder if the name is related:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugh

"Maztiak" could almost be the word "Maztica" switched around slightly.
Maztica was apparently a campaign in the Forgotten Realms series. From the wikipedia:

"West from Faer?n, across the Sea of Swords, the Trackless Sea, and 'Tayola' the Eastern Ocean, Maztica is a land of jungles and (to the Faer?nians) mystery."

On a side note, I remember MK calls the series the "Forgettable Realms". I liked the CRPG series Baldur's Gate myself, but that's unimportant.

Having gone through this thread, I realize why I have not posted here since before Oblivion came out. This the most confusing forum I have ever been a part of, every time I think I know something, I get hit with a new level of confusion.


But it was nice to travel down memory lane.

The Mabinogion is THE collection of Welsh folk tales: Merlin, Arthur, Tristan and Iseult, etc...

I can see the relevance of the Fir Bolg to that.

And considering somebody pointed out Lyg/Lugh... Hmm...

Right on there Marn - I was thinking of that - putting the two together but I couldn't quite put my finger on it - but I think there's another 'transposition' of the word out there too.

Lyg though has a Norse or Anglo Saxon feel to it. That might make it the view of another mythos re Lugh - but more likely something other.

There are a few similarities (too many to be coincidence) between this particular mythos and TES. LOL. Lugh does sound like Lyg. It also sounds like Reyman Ebon Arm... "Lugh Strong Hand". (that was a joke, btw).

Lugh was also said to have fathered C?chulainn. C?chulainn sounds like Emperor Cuhlecain (emperor zero).

Wow. This thread is getting pretty long, isn't it? I wonder if it'll top 200 before they close it. Happens from time to time.

Finding morpheme similarities is all fine and dandy, but they have to really be justified by something. It's not enough to say "Cuhlecain sounds kinda like Cuchulain, so it is definitely an allusion to it", you have to show why there is that allusion, what does it say about Cuhlecain, how can both characters be compared and likened?

It's like that "Blessings of Mystara upon you" thing beggars say sometimes in Oblivion. "Mystara is an old D&D setting, so it is that!" Well, no. A setting, old or not, D&D or not, is not a deity. Saying this "Mystara" is a D&D allusion is meaningless because it just doesn't make sense. There's no signification to be found in relating them together.

Likewise here. How could Lyg (very clearly a city or country) be meaningfully likened to Lugh?

You have to admit that the phonic similarities might just be a coincidence, or have been chosen merely because it sounded cool, no matter how many there are, rather than for any deeper reason.

For the record, I didn't say it was an allusion to it. I was implying the names were inspired by it.

http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/marobar02.shtml

:D

I was desperately trying to think of some joke about that book, seeing as Lyg is Lorkhan.

What exactly does "egg-layered" mean?

Alike the egg-layered universe is this morbid possession of three-distant coverage, soul-wrecked and alive, like my name is alive. In this cloister you have discovered one walking path, hilled like a sword but more coarsened. So edged it is that it has to be whispered to keep the tongue from bleeding, where its signs evacuate their former meanings, like empires that tarry too long.

Source: http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml

Is it egg-like in the sence that Tamriel is the yoke, The Void is the white, and the eggshell is Aetherius?

The Void and Oblivion aren't the same thing, the Void is 'outside' of Aetherius. Nirn-Oblivion-Aetherius-Void.

Nirn is the yolk, Oblivion the white, Aetherius the shell, and the Void is everything that isn't part of the egg.

Aaargh yoke, joke and yolk!

Regarding "egg-layered," be sure to read about the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_eggconcept in (earth) mythology, and then add http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nesting_doll.

Not nearly capable of participating meaningfully in this fascinating (if confusing) discussion, allow me to at least point out that it seems our Bethesda friends have managed to out-do Tolkien in terms of complexity. The Silmarillion (god love it) has nothing on this.

Don't know if this matters all that much, but mythopoeia is when a modern writer invents a mythology.

Anyway, please continue. This is all very interesting.

And if you really want to be picky, Mundus is the yolk. Nirn's just one planet, even though it is the central plane(t) of said dimension.