WARNING: This is long and kind of rambling, bear with me.

Did it bother anyone else how bounties and crime were treated in previous games?
You knock the wrong person in a fight and the guard either gives you a night in jail or will straight-up murder you in the street.

How is there even anyone left alive if that is the perception of crime in Tamriel?
And any guard that sees you do anything will chase you to the ends of the earth for shoplifting. While the whole Robocop crime sense is cool, any more than one of them and the system goes to hell, either as an Orwellian Dystopia or some sort of Anarchy.

Now down to the meat of the situation, some ideas on how crime can be dealt with better in Skyrim.
-Guards don’t draw swords unless it’s a major crime (murder, you know really bad stuff), for minor crimes they try and subdue you; give them a truncheon or something to try and knock you out. If the guard knocks you down you get put in irons and hauled off to jail.
-Since everyone can cast spells in this, why not give guards something like a trip spell (lets say a short duration drain fatigue and acrobatics), to make is just that bit harder to run away.
-Wanted posters, a little thing but can add so much to immersion, list your crimes maybe a description of what you were wearing and a “last seen” to allow you to at least know why everyone seems to want you dead.
-Following on from that, some basis of disguises, if you’re wearing something completely different to what you were wearing committing the crime, they won’t be able to track you as easily. (Note: completely different, not “that can’t be him, the killer didn’t have an amulet”) Maybe with give disguises some sort of distance that it can work from.
-You know how anytime you are caught by the guard he basically stops time to read you your rights (fight or die), and you still stand there and politely listen, when you should be running like hell. Instead of the guard running up silently and then talking they maybe start calling out “hey! You!” and if you run, they chase and if they lose you they tell others to be on the lookout, and if you are caught an option to interrupt and break dialogue.
-Regional crimes, no more every guard, everywhere, knows you’re a shoplifter 3 seconds after you do it, maybe by implementing some couriers going from town to town on occasion, petty crimes get sent along with other news and may be disseminated within a week, but mass murder and major heists get their own special messenger and people hear about it in a day or two.
-If a guard thinks you are being suspicious (sneaking around town, matching partial description, out at night with a sack marked “loot”) they should try to question you, giving an opportunity for some sort of speechcraft challenge, if you win, they leave you alone, maybe slightly more vigilant, otherwise you are asked to come to come to the guardpost for further questioning.
-Better detection of stolen goods, why would anyone care that you stole that particular apple six months ago? As said elsewhere, some items (food, forks, random junk) no one should care if it’s stolen or you simply can’t tell one from the other. Larger things that people care about, but may not be able to distinguish (a vase, a sword) should be tracked as stolen but the risk of carrying it should vary by time and location and have some sort of indicator, while important and unique items are always considered stolen and you have to rely on a fence to sell it for you. A possible method of how stolen items should be tracked is by using a hand indicator like in oblivion and changing the color to indicate how likely you are to be caught.
Something like:
Red: people are on the lookout, confiscated if arrested, only sellable to fences.
Orange: moderate vigilance, may have problems selling locally or to honest types.
Green: no one looking, should have no problem selling.
White: item not reported yet, can sell, but likely to have problems if reported later.
With the progression of white to red to orange to green and then the theft marker is removed.
The speed of the transitions should be something like a week for little cheap things, to maybe a month or two for the lager stuff that isn’t that unique.

It’s a wordy list I know, but even some of it would be an improvement.
That’s all I can think of that could be related to better crime, let me know what you think.

This actually sounds pretty good, though I'm sure not all of it will be implemented.

I could have sworn that they mentioned a new crime system.

The fact that you always start in jail should have told you that Tamriel's justice system is problematic :tongue:

Anyway. Good points, although I'm not so sure how easy some of them might be to implement right. They must have redesigned some stuff though. Psychic guards have gotten so many complaints that I doubt they'll be coming back

sounds good to me especially the theft indicator that allows you to know how hot your items are considered

Yeah, it always bothered me that stolen items would never "cool off" in oblivion.

I like what you're saying here. I've had similar issues with OB and MW, well, it's not too much of a prob in MW 'cos I'm fairly by the book and know how to deal with/exploit that game, but OB, yeah, guards and their psychic powers. :down:

I've been discussing that delayed bounty factor and illegal activity reports on a few other threads, it would be great if messengers were used to alert other towns/cities, over a certain time period. There could also be a seperate reputation factor that accumulates gradually, simulating the gradual dissemination of knowledg by word of mouth, so that your history eventually does permeate the world of Skyrim, and people hear about your deeds, as opposed to "Oh, you helped this person out. Your reputation goes up by two, because everyone instantly knows about it."

Problem is, this can't happen with your criminal rating, as it gets wiped once you pay your dues, or serve sentence (for those who like playing a villain, you know you want to keep a reputation here). They could, however, make a tweak to the reputation system, where some of your fame is attributed to your criminal actions (if any), eg, "Aye, he's a fearsome warrior, but I've heard he's a bit of a scoundrel. Robbed some poor bloke in Dawnstar not long ago."

Which brings me to another topic, AI's knowledge of your reputation. It'd be great to get more recognition for your actual deeds, a more detailed knowledge of what you've done, and preferably some indication of how you did it. Hearing more in the street of people talking about you and your actions, actively thanking you for saving their town from the latest dragon attack as you walk down the street (or frowning, muttering or spitting at you if you killed someone/didn't help them). Also, during conversations, unique dialogue could appear, based on what you have done, and again, how you did it.

But I don't know if this would make the final cut. I've seen a lot of wishful thinking on this forum. Great ideas nevertheless.

ISN'T THAT THE SAME SPOON THAT WAS STOLEN FROM THE INN SIX MONTHS AGO?!?!?! GUARDS!! ARREST THIS MAN!!

lol

And thus the rampage of Billy the Spoon-Thief comes to a close, and the people rejoiced.

But seriously...

How the whole reputation thing can be dealt with is in some way similar to what happened in New Vegas, the whole fame/Infamy thing tracked by different factions.
Possibly with information on your deeds disseminating outward depending on what sort of deeds they were with some affecting your reputation in other cities, for example; the hero of Dawnstar Revolt should be known across the land, but your reputation for being the nice man who got Ms Miggins' cat out of that tree isn't going to get much further than the edge of town.

How is there even anyone left alive if that is the perception of crime in Tamriel? Agreed. Guards shouldn't try to kill you for petty crimes.

And any guard that sees you do anything will chase you to the ends of the earth for shoplifting. Guards shouldn't abandon posts to getcha unless your crime is more important than what they're guarding.

Guards don’t draw swords unless it’s a major crime (murder, you know really bad stuff), for minor crimes they try and subdue you; give them a truncheon or something to try and knock you out. If the guard knocks you down you get put in irons and hauled off to jail. This mostly makes sense, except for the part where they try to knock you out. They should try to cuff you, and if you resist then they might get violent (and draw swords at that point). But, if you run away, then they should have little recourse unless they can believably spread the word.

Since everyone can cast spells in this, why not give guards something like a trip spell (lets say a short duration drain fatigue and acrobatics), to make is just that bit harder to run away. Guards don't deserve special spells, and I'd be darned if a simple trip spell is going to catch my character. I don't think it's the cumbersome-looking kind of stuff that belongs in TES, either.

Wanted posters, a little thing but can add so much to immersion... Would be great, but I doubt they'd get implemented.

Following on from that, some basis of disguises, if you’re wearing something completely different to what you were wearing committing the crime, they won’t be able to track you as easily... Maybe with give disguises some sort of distance that it can work from. I don't think they'd do it any better than faction outfits in FO:NV. Again, it'd be wonderful if they can get things like this in the game.

You know how anytime you are caught by the guard he basically stops time to read you your rights (fight or die), and you still stand there and politely listen, when you should be running like hell. Instead of the guard running up silently and then talking they maybe start calling out “hey! You!” and if you run, they chase and if they lose you they tell others to be on the lookout, and if you are caught an option to interrupt and break dialogue. I don't get the point of this, considering that we know that time won't stop when we speak or are spoken to another NPC. It's been confirmed that if someone is talking to you, you can simply walk away.

Regional crimes, no more every guard, everywhere, knows you’re a shoplifter 3 seconds after you do it, maybe by implementing some couriers going from town to town on occasion, petty crimes get sent along with other news and may be disseminated within a week, but mass murder and major heists get their own special messenger and people hear about it in a day or two. This has been discussed to death. Here's a post with a great list of solutions: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1149668-merchents-and-stolen-goods/page__st__20__p__16815236__hl__marked+stolen__fromsearch__1#entry16815236

If a guard thinks you are being suspicious (sneaking around town, matching partial description, out at night with a sack marked “loot”) they should try to question you, giving an opportunity for some sort of speechcraft challenge, if you win, they leave you alone, maybe slightly more vigilant, otherwise you are asked to come to come to the guardpost for further questioning. I think this is asking for too much. "Thinks you are being suspicious" is something subjective, and something I wouldn't think the current AI to be capable of.

Better detection of stolen goods, why would anyone care that you stole that particular apple six months ago? As said elsewhere, some items (food, forks, random junk) no one should care if it’s stolen or you simply can’t tell one from the other. Larger things that people care about, but may not be able to distinguish (a vase, a sword) should be tracked as stolen but the risk of carrying it should vary by time and location and have some sort of indicator, while important and unique items are always considered stolen and you have to rely on a fence to sell it for you. A possible method of how stolen items should be tracked is by using a hand indicator like in oblivion and changing the color to indicate how likely you are to be caught This stuff was also discussed in other posts, including the link above.

Something like:
Red: people are on the lookout, confiscated if arrested, only sellable to fences.
Orange: moderate vigilance, may have problems selling locally or to honest types.
Green: no one looking, should have no problem selling.
White: item not reported yet, can sell, but likely to have problems if reported later.
With the progression of white to red to orange to green and then the theft marker is removed.
The speed of the transitions should be something like a week for little cheap things, to maybe a month or two for the lager stuff that isn’t that unique.

That kind of system seems easy-enough to implement, easy to understand, and very helpful. I hope they do incorporate something at least as good as this suggestion.

I'm pretty sure most people took issue with the crime/theft mechanics in Oblivion, but I don't think some of your suggestions are feasible for Skyrim.

My point was someone tries to run the guards shouldn't go for the sword first thing, there should be a less-lethal weapon option. Not that they should beat you unconscious, but that they shouldn't kill you.



Didn't know that, so that one is kind of pointless.


that's fine it just always bothered me that the guards never cared that I was sneaking around them(and not doing a good job). Something as simple as him shouting "hey what do you think you’re up to?" if I were caught skulking around the market place would make me feel better about the AI.


Fair enough, I just wanted to try to point at areas in which the game may need improvement.