If it's only been open for settlement for about 13 years when Morrowind started? I mean, I can understand the few castles the Imperials put up, but these huge Dunmer cities like Balmora and Vivec don't seem very likely to have gotten that big in just 13 years. Hell, Mournhold is pretty tiny for being Morrowind's capital for so long, if cities like these can be built in less than 13 years(and then settled).

Well the island is rich in ebony/glass/eggs etc. Lots of very valuable resources to be mined, its not out of the ordinary that the cities would grow alot faster to cater for the amount of people coming to the island to work in mines etc when you think about it.

Game-mechanics.

And I think the "settlement" part is just for the Imperials, the Dunmer and Dwemer had lived there for quite some time if I'm not incorrect.

I read that the only things there before 414 were minor Temple settlements(they were the only ones allowed to use the island) and ashlanders. The Telvanni broke the law(if you want to call it that) and put some, but that's about it.

It's still pretty fast to be building cities so big, unless Tamriel is more architechurely(sp? lol) advanced than I thought.

Vivec City is ancient if I remember right. It's only a few cities like Balmora that are recent Imperial settlements.

Yes, I found that a bit weird as well. I think it is mentioned that there were some Great House settlements there before, though - so that would explain cities like Ald'ruhn and Balmora.

Think of it like this -

North America had settlements, Aboriginal settlements.( Dunmer settlements )

Then the Europeans ( Imperials ) came and " Settled " .

About Mournhold: what you've seen in Tribunal is only the inner city of Almelexia.

Aboriginal settlements would be the ashlander camps in this case.

I mean, the empire "owned" Vvardenfel for over 400 years, but they only granted the Dunmer temple access to it(and they just built shrines and stuff). And I remember reading books about how the Great Houses divied up the land, so no they weren't there before the Imperials were(I remember that Hlaalu was granted the better portions of land because of their relations with the Empire, compared to Redoran and Telvanni).

Vivec, the biggest city, probably existed even before the rest of the land was settled. But apart from that... yeah. It just doesnt add up. And the people also TALK like its been longer. "The Blight has made things so bad" - as if there had been things before the Blight. Its odd. I like to think of it that Vvardenfell is settled since at least two generations already, so at least 60 years - which isnt that much yet, either. Ironcially, one in-game source (the Dagoth Urs Plans note, I think) mentions that Sleepers cell were biuilt up near Balmora and other cities already 404 (I think it was) - in any case years before settlement is said to began. So theres even some outright contradiction.

The game dialogue mentions that some settlements on Vvardenfell are ancient.

Balmora is mentioned in the book 2920, The Last Year of the First Era, which is a work of in-world fiction but still I think it's reliable on this matter.


My inference has always been that anywhere with an old Velothi style Temple building is most likely an old settlement. This means Balmora, Ald-ruhn, Suran, Vos, Maar Gan and Gnisis. The last two in particular strike me as being old since they are shrines to relics and events from previous Ages.

Imperial settlements - Pelagiad, Caldera, the Legion Forts - are new.

Coastal fishing villages, like Ald Velothi, Gnaar Mok, etc, are hard to call. Some may be old, some might have sprung up fairly recently.

Likewise for Telvanni tower villages - some might have been there for centuries, others might be recent. After all, Tel Uvirith springs up practically overnight. Aryon's tower is a new one too. The others, anyone's guess.

Okay, here are some in-game quotes.

On the topic 'Vvardenfell':


From the book 'A Short History of Morrowind':


So there were some Great House settlements there before the island was opened up to Imperial colonisation. On the other hand, Athyn Sarethi has this to say on the topic 'Bolvyn Venim':


This implies that Ald'ruhn may have been settled rather more recently - though given how long Dark Elves live, it's quite possible that this happened a century ago or more.

Yep. Just like all you see of Sotha Sil is his inner workshop.

Ald'ruhn means Old Home. It's not recent.

That's like listening to a German guy telling you the capital was moved from Bonn to Berlin in 1991 and concluding that Berlin was founded in 1991.

Add in the Ashlander settlements and of course all those 'brand new' Velothi Tombs?

You know that Redoran are Warriors, Telvanni are Wizards? Guess what Hlaalu are? ... and Imperials feel that the Hlaalu are just like them. So what does that make the Imperials? Now if you accept this then how reliable as a source of info would you think the PGE and other Imperial propaganda documents are?

Communication skills = lies.

So let's look at that document you quoted Helena and in the Grand Imperial manner re-write it:




Centered around - that indicates that there are other settlements, but that Balmora, Ald'ruhn and Sadrith Mora are indeed old - read predating presumtuous Imperial Invaders and they are centers of population but not all the population was there. See they are District Centers - so they administer to the district ... What happened to the rest of the inhabitants of the District? Mostly killed off by blighted creatures etc I would imagine. Note also the Ashlanders. They were part of Vvardenfell from before the Tribunal. Note the Urshilaku Burial Grounds - again Ancient. What a lot that pathetic excuse for a tourist guide written by a parvenue missed.

Now this book contradicts itself as follows:



What is this - first there are ancient centers with population surrounding them and then it appears only a few settlements ... and ofc NO ASHLANDERS

Anyone playing the game can see that Balmora was built of a piece. there was no expansion outside the city walls ... you might suspect that there is something fishy going on here. And indeed there is. A short way up the river is an ancient Redoran mine called Caldera - that the Hlaalu want to steal and with assistance from their fellow Imperial thieves, using Imperial propaganda backed up by the content of a short History of Morrwind to reassure any dupes that there was no real Redoran claim to that extremely valuable source of Ebony they gain an Imperial licence to land that is not and never was theirs. Cheaply bought.

And so it goes on.

The entire story is that Ald'ruhn was ancient and the Redoran moved their HQ from the mainland to that great City to be in the forefront of the offensive against Dagoth Ur and to escape being swamped by the Imperials and their running dogs the Hlaalu on the mainland. But even on Vvardenfell they could not find freedom. It was a ploy. However they had also absorbed a lot of Imperial Propaganda during their time on the mainland and so they see Vvardenfell as a frontier - Ignoring the fact that Ald'ruhn and many Dunmer settlements in the area date back to Old Resdayn - and that predates Vivec and co. There you have the other foot landing. Betrayed both from within and without.

Have you not noted the Dunmer Forts? The Tombs, The Dwemer locations, the 'abandoned' settlements etc. The Empire in cultural terms appears to include a fair bit of genocide and Vivec is party to that possibly following in Dunmer footsteps. Note near Azura's Statue and Shrine there is an genuinely Ancient Tomb - that of King Harold. That predates just about everything on the island.

Look again at the activities of the East Empire Company on Solstheim and Imperial expansion generally and what you will see is that the Trading companies are used as a wedge to prise open native lands and resources for Imperial expansion and settlement. There is no great gift of technology here. The cultures that these Imperials invade and destroy are often technically superior to the culture of Cyrodiil - just different.

And the part about 'took our share of the frontier lands'? You may well be right, it's just that the way he said it implies that the founding of the capital happened at the same time.

1999 - are you feeling all right? I don't entirely grasp the point of that long ramble, but as far as I can make out, we appear to be saying exactly the same thing - that there were other settlements on Vvardenfell prior to Imperial colonisation. Which was the point of my original post.

It seems he is saying that the entire claim that Vvardenfell has been only recently opened to settlement is a complete political lie.

Yes - it goes totally contrary to in-game action and everything else in every way. so I am taking it a stage further using your post Helena - ty The OP's question is very perceptive.

Vvardenfell was controlled by the Tribunal Temple ever since the War of the First Council. Temple influence prevented expansions of the already-existing settlements there -- and there were many, just about everywhere you see Velothi, Stronghold or Dwemer architecture -- had their development checked and hampered by Temple restrictions.

When the Temple lost enough power to allow Vvardenfell to be reopened, the Telvanni, Redoran and Hlaalu moved back in to reoccupy what was once theirs (or, in some case, to occupy what was once the other house's before they can get there) and the Imperials themselves chartered a few towns or converted old shack settlements into an imperial town (e.g. Seyda Neen).

One should point out that, except for Tel Vos which is blatant Telvanni conversion of an older place, and also except for Tel Uvirith which is built in-game, none of the Telvanni cities are on Vvardenfell proper. They're all on little Inner Sea islands. They were thus out of the Temple control.

And Tel Vos is even described as a daring landgrab the Telvanni pulled off.
Thozugh it isnt the Temple losing powe,r is it? I thought the Temple went along with the plan to have infrastructure around Red Mountain, to hence better keep a check on Dagoth Ur (and possibly to give the Nerevarine an infrastructure, with the N. as backup plan should Vivec not suceed).

I really don't think the Tribunal wanted to give the Nerevarine much help.

"Guys, some ancient evil that can mind control people in their dream and turn them into horrible monsters through an airborne disease has just awoken! What should we do?"
"What if we sent a lot of hapless civilians just within his conversion range so as to let him build a huge army before we realize we made a fatal mistake?"
"Sounds like a plan. Let's do this."

They would rather have had the island to themselves, but the Empire buttressed the secular powers and any claims at conflict with the Temple's. Vivec never wanted to kill Dagoth Ur, only contain him.

@Gez- Hah, nice.

Exactly. The 13 years refers to Imperial settlement.

That's a fun way of putting it - esp re Vivec. Makes a bit of a mockery of The Trial so I suppose I oughta approve

The claim was that the Tribunal was no longer able to kill him and so they had to build th eGhost Fence to not only contain the Dagoths, but also the blighted creatures - and according to Vivec's explanation of how death affects him, death for one such as Dagoth Ur is merely sleep anyways. That being backed up by dagoth Ur's apparent death and return. But in recent times it is claimed that the Tribunal were slowly failing - and so th eGhost Fence one supposes.

Also interesting you view that the Empire were buttressing the secular powers - by which I suppose you mean armed forces. I suppose that might be thought, but the range of Empire troops was rather too secular for what they would have had to meet if 'all hell broke loose'. So I am wondering if the real aim was landgrab for Hlaalu and resourcegrab for the East Empire Company?