True. The Temple maintains acrimony towards Necromancy, but I think the Mages Guild does too. I doubt Ranis Athys is one would take much care of Temple doctrine really.

Morrowind isn't a necromantic country. It's just necromancers find it easy find places to hide in Morrowind, with a fresh supply of dead slaves in nearly every city. The Dunmer necromancers implicitly never practise Necromancy on their own dead kin. Whilst it is so that most of the oldest Telvanni councillors are masters in Necromancy, even the Telvanni respect this ghost law against violation of one's own kin. The Temple doesn't care about the Telvanni, and nor the Telvanni about the Temple.

I must respectfully disagree with the great Proweler on this one. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Caranya of the Cyrodiil Mages Guild is a "http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Mages_Guild", which is one rank below an http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Mages_Guild. I do not accept that guild members not listed as Arch-Mages can be on a council of Arch-Mages or Archmagisters.


The number of Arch-Mages has been a point of great debate for some time now as can be seen http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=624519&hl=. It is known, however, that http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Trebonius_Artorius was the Arch-Mage of Vvardenfell only. There was, at the same time, an Arch-Mage of Almalexia. Upon the Nerevarine making his report about "The Disappearance of The Dwarves", Trebonius has this to say: "Well, I'm glad that the mystery is solved at last. Next time the Arch-Mage of Almalexia visits, I'll really have something to brag about." Since Morrowind is one province composed of six Imperial districts (See http://www.imperial-library.info/savant/), and at that time there were two Arch-Mages for one single district, I would have to conclude that the one Arch-Mage per province theory is rendered unfeasible. (Not to mention that there are more than six provinces, which would put a strain on the "Council of Six Archmagisters" rule.)


The only recourse that I can find is that the http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/mages_charter.shtml reads differently than http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/mages_guild_charter.shtml. In that the Mages Guild for the Iliac Bay regions have http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Magic_and_Spells(i.e., "thaumaturgy") and the Divines' Chapels are called "http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Akatosh", "http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Zenithar", etc., one could assume that each guild has the ability to set its own local rules and policies, with Traven's ban being only enforceable in Cyrodiil.

This does not answer the questions...

(1) How many Arch-Mages are there?
(2) What power does each Arch-Mage have over the affairs of the entire Guild as an institution?
(3) Is each member that is ranked as an "Arch-Mage" automatically a member of the "Council of Arch-Mages" that we keep hearing about?
(4) Are the six Arch-Mages that sit on the "Council of Arch-Mages" of a different type than the Arch-Mages that run the local guilds? For example, federal U.S. judges often have the power to overrule state judges (on certain things) even though they are both "judges".




You are thinking of http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/sloadarticle1.shtml by The Sload. While it is a wonderful article, it is not canon.


Not necessarily. The Sload known as N'Gasta worshipped Clavicus Vile as shown http://www.imperial-library.info/tsorg/part10.shtml.

May Julianos, as the god of sorcery, illuminate your searches, for I remain...

Yours in the Scrolls,


___The Word Merchant of Julianos

My opinion is that Arch Mage is a level of Magical Knowledge or Proficiency. Head of the Guild is a seperate post. Most likely the Head of the Guild (whether proviencial or entire guild) will most likely have an Arch Mage in that position its not a requirement that every Arch Mage be in a position of authority.

Your all thinking too small. How would an organization like this work realisticly. Your a Mage. A VERY POWERFUL Mage. Would you really really really want to spend your time doing paperwork? Telling people what to do? I think alot of the Arch Mages are in private practice or doing research. Think of them like Doctors. They gravitate to their interests. Just my opinions.

The Imperial mage's guild has imperial duities it performs, which is why it is a recognized guild. It performs services, and is like a business. The "archmage" is like the CEO of the organisation, yes-- He NEEDS to be well versed in the magical arts to properly coordinate his guild, and needs to know the skills and talents of all its members, so that the guild can properly function.

micromanagment of a large guild does not work, however, so he has to hire managers. these are the guild stewards. Like any business that has incorporated, it has a pannel of board members, In the case of the mage's guild, it is the council of mages.


The Mage's Guild is a magickal corporate structure.

Well, then Traven is a piss poor CEO, because he was freaking restrictive with EVERYTHING!

"Some people say Traven is missusing the power of the archmage......"



Ring a bell?

He almost made a second mantella. Crude as it was, he sacrificed himself for the greater good of Cyrodiil.

DEATH TO THE FALSE EMP....ARCHMAGE!

"He almost made a second mantella. Crude as it was, he sacrificed himself for the greater good of Cyrodiil."

I disagree, he created the situation which allowed Manimarco to return. Without Traven's sanctions against guild necromancy then Manimarco would not have had the power base that defected to him. Guild Sanctioned Necromancy would have ensured that the Guild could have fought Necromancy with Necromancy and with few defections (theres always some who will hop the fence).

At best he created the broom that the Champion used to clean up the mess.

I'm not so sure about this one. I think Mannimarco was returning, and that's what caused the whole mess in the first place. Traven even led a discussion on Necromancy (http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/black_arts_on_trial.shtml). While it might be a propaganda piece trying to portray the poor guy as innocent in the events, I generally think Traven did mean good for the guild.

Some of his actions and decisions are highly doubtful tho. The closing of the university is one such act which is hard to understand. But I think he wanted to ensure a higher standard, and.. looking at the local guilds I agree. He just didn't do it the right way.

I don't think Mannimarco was just waiting for an excuse to come back. He came back the moment of the Warp, and he came back roaring. I think this was just a culmination of all the years of work. Remember, he had other goals before the Warp than caring about the guild.

No doubt he was coming back. But instead of facing a Unified Guild he faced a fractured Guild and absorbed a greater number of Malcontents then he would have if Traven had kept the status quo. The Mages Guild is attempting to enforce a certain morality and thats the temples job. Not the mages guild. How moral can you be when you cheat...I.E. Use Magic.

Why would it be cheating to use magick? And do you count Enchanting as cheat as well?

Well, if necromancy is defined as immoral or illegal magic manipulating the dead, then necromancy would be illegal everywhere, by definition. The definition of what is immoral or illegal varies by region and culture.

Temple cheats, too, man. Where are all the good restoration spells and trainers? Yep.

Restoration is magick, too.

What about crusaders? They're holy knights. I guess their holy cheaters as well, since they use restoration and destruction.

This is TES, not D&D or Final Fantasy. There is no white/vs/black or divine/vs/arcane magick. The magic the temple uses and the magic the guild uses are the samest thing.