It was bad at first during the 3 months this year as the client was always being updated but it is stable now. In my laptop and PC offline mode works everytime now. I think they fixed it.




Ah, I think it can be seen as part of the deal. I like the application and service overall. I feel like I am robbing someone most of the time. Life-time online back-up for all games you have and ability to create your own offline backups, no cd required, offline mode, organize/keeps tracks of your games and all for free... where do I sign?

A deal I don't want, I do not want to need to log in to an account I don't want to make to install a singleplayer game (sounds too MMO-ish to me) I would understand if this system was used for multiplayer games

& besides I am already able to to make offline backups of my games. I have my legally purchased unsteamed fallout Trilogy & Fallout 3 GOTY backed up on a flash drive.

I respect your opinion but Steamworks wouldn't do me any good & that's why I say "Gamers like options, Steam should remain one."

Steam is not MMO though. Why do you feel that way? I can't change your feelings. Maybe you can pass that and enjoy the application like I do. It is very helpful. One more time you can login to your account: without internet connection. The account is in your computer. It is being synced separately. You login to your windows but that isn't an MMO nor needs to be online.


Steam provides this for all games, plus free online backup, plus no-cd, no constant internet connection options.


I still think the things in my above post(I excluded many other content and focused on useful ones) would apply to you, at least some of them. I agree that gamers should have options though. If steam becomes a monopoly, someone will force them to divide. But I would like to see Steam burning all the other DRMs to hell until then. :flame:

Correct Steam is not an MMO, Steam is a digi-distribution service, Steamworks adds it as a requirement to games.

if you mean backing up the whole game online that would not work for me, using my Fallout 3 installation as an example it's 17.3gb that would take forever to back up via 56k & I don't want to cloud my saves either.

And yet Steamworks is a step closer to that monopoly, last I checked Steam had 60-70% of the digi-distribution games market & now that more are going to have steam installed thanks to steamworks more are going to go through steam for future game purchases while that may be good for publishersit wont be good for anyone that doesn't a fast connection.

They only provide backup service for the original game. And some space for savegames and configs. It wouldn't be practical to upload 17.3gb. Very few games are moddable to that extend, you play other games too right? (I only play Morrowind these days)


I don't worry about monopolies(I hate the game though), there are boards which will divide/limit monopolies when needed. Steam is "under the radar" for now, and I want it to end those ridiculous DRMs before then.

Internet connection problems must be solved outside of steam. It is unfair to blame steam for that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_access#Internet_access_as_right

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10461048

yes, I do play others, Neverwinter Nights, oblivion, Classic Doom engine games (ultimate Doom,Doom II, Final Doom Heretic & Hexen) using the Doomsday engine, Duke Nukem 3D using Eduke32 Mechwarrior 4 (free release version), some Need for Speed: underground for some car action.
Morrowind is a great game, I just want to rebuy the GOTY edition the discs are showing either age or my overuse.


monopoly, fond memories playing that with the family.

& those are interesting links you posted but imo I don't really think that the application of those laws would work here in America (towns are too spread out from each other,)

Hopefully Steam dies very fast. It is extremely horrible to force this crap on people. I as well find absolutely nothing useful from Steam. I have a fast internet connection, 20MB/s download speed & wish I would never have to install that garbage on my computer. I will never buy any game from Steam. I will always go buy the actual disk version from a local store, as I can get as good or better deals locally & I get the actual disk.

There is nothing that anyone can say, that will make me like Steam, so there is no point for anyone to respond to my post, telling me how great they think Steam is for them.

I honestly don't mind myself. I love Steam so far. It's a great way for me to get a PC game that doesn't require me to scrounge around for the elusive physical copy in the store (it's nearly impossible to find PC games at Walmart or Gamestop anymore), and I don't have to wait 7 days for a copy to arrive in the mail. Not to mention, it also takes care of updating for me. And who doesn't love the Steam Sales? It's actually making me think about waiting it out for New Vegas just so I can get it for $20 or something, compared to $50 for the PC physical copy and $60 for the Xbox 360/PS3 copy, not adding taxes.

Only thing I wouldn't like is if it interfered with mod usage in some way. But I'm sure modders could find a way to work around said problems if any arise.

As for the DRM, isn't New Vegas supposed to have a non-online Steam DRM or something? Or allow you to play the game with Steam in offline mode?

Yes, but you still have to have the garbage program installed & running to play the game.

Who say you would have to buy the Steam version? You would still be able to buy the physical copy or is there something i've misunderstood?

Personaly, i also prefer physical media. I doubt i'll ever buy a game from Steam, and services like OnLive is even more unlikely. But why not give the people who prefer Steam the option?

You can buy the retail physical copy, but it Steam installation and Steam online activation is mandatory.

I think we need to differentiate "Steam" & "Steamworks"

Steam: optional Digi-distribution & DRM, not needed unless you downloaded a game from Steam.

Steamworks: Digi-distribution & DRM: all PC versions of these titles require steam usage.

oh i see. in that case... HELL NO!!!

Steam actually doesn't hinder performance all that much anymore. I barely notice a difference when I have it running. Only reason you should worry is if you're trying to play a game with less than 2GB of RAM installed on your computer, which most games require that or more these days, so it really wouldn't be an issue.

Most I've had Steam taking up resource wise is like 40MB or something. And that's whenever it's downloading a game or something. Might even be less than that, if I recall.

At least it's not as annoying as GFWL.

I have a quad core CPU, 8GB of RAM, two 4870 1GB video cards in crossfire, a 20MB/s connection & I still don't want the garbage program on my computer. My computer & connection can run it fine without me even noticing it. That's not the problem. The problem is I do not like steam at all & do not want it on my computer. It offers me absolutely nothing. I don't give a rats ass about any of the things that steam can do.

The only thing steam is there to do, is to stop people from pirating the game & it can't even do that. What is the point of having completely worthless software running on your computer?

I think Steam is really great, except for the times when offline mode won't work.
I'd like to have no DRM on TES5, but a Steam DRM is not a worst case scenario for me.

DRM's don't work. They get cracked within a couple days. All they do is make it harder for legit owners of the game, to be able to play the game they bought.

I buy all my games from a local store. I refuse to buy anything from steam. I don't need or want anything that steam offers.

I had to change my vote to yes. Just recently my oblivion disc got all scratched and can't install anymore. If TES V required steam activation I would still be able to get a physical copy, and be able to download the game if ever my disc got bad. No repurchase required.

So, to clarify, if my disc goes bad, I can download the game if I need to install it again.

With Steam there isn't online activation. You buy it from Steam and it stays on your Steam account forever. You can uninstall and install whenever you want.

It isn't like if you buy a physical copy, while at the same time it's available on Steam, you'd have to activate it with Steam. What would make anyone think that?

While I do agree with milto, milto does seem to be referring more to "Steamworks" (which does require online activation to the user's account even for the physical copy) than regular version of Steam.

Even there, it's a one time deal, and then it's yours forever. Where's the hassle?

The hastle is that I still have to have software I don't want installed on my computer and I still have to sign up for another account I don't want. And If I end up not liking the game I can't resell it since that copy is now forever linked to my Steam account. There is absolutely no reason why the retail version of any game should require Steam. None.

It is not a "you have to install steam" situation. It is a "you will want to install steam" situation. I decided on my own, I didn't install steam because I "have to", I want it for benefits. It was a good one of the best decisions I made as far as I can tell.

Now reselling games needs entirely another thread. For us gamers, it is easy to talk about it. But why can't we put ourselves in their(devs, publishers) shoes?

There are some key points:

Movies have the privilege to run on theaters first. Can you resell your theater experience?

Games are no different from this, even better games provide interactivity which is another reason to restrict the experience to one user(it harder to implement though). Reselling hurts the devs unimaginably in this case. Think you can hold on your ticket and sell it to anyone you want.

So with Steam it is like going to a theater, you have to read the reviews and be careful or you can have a Transformers 2 disaster, only Steam offers lifetime ticket but only for you.

This is a very difficult case to solve. Can we built a first release restricted usage(like theater runs) and then a later date, unrestricted release. But wait, aren't all those DRMs with activation limits tell that they will remove it at a later date(like releasing DVDs after some time from theatrical runs)?

Now, can you see what they were thinking? Do you want that? Good thing I am not in charge or Securom guys, we would restrict it to one experience. "1 installation limit on one machine". It is perfectly reasonable, it is like movies and a little better in fact. I doubt gamers would be OK with this though.

You have to think on this matter and come up with a fair solution. It is not an easy matter to solve. I thought about this and apparently Gabe Newell too. The solution he came up with, I like it. I will support it, until it kills all the current DRMs. Because for me the real important thing is the lifetime expiration of old games. I see games as a work of art. So I hate to see games become abandonware or incompatible with newer OSes. This is number one problem for me. Steam kind of solves this problem too. But it is not perfect.

PS. Steam doesn't try to end pirating with its DRM. It is to end all other DRMs. Steam tries to end pirating with another way: Incredible SALES.

If anyone wants to play a game that requires Steam to play, they will "have to" install steam to play the game. There is no option for not installing steam & still being able to play the game.



It's good steam isn't trying to end piracy with it's drm, because it doesn't stop piracy at all. All it does is make thing difficult for people who legally buy the games that require steam. What deals exactly? All I have seen is some deals on old games that most people already have & have no need to buy again. [sarcasm]I always want deals on things I have already bought so I don't get that deal at all. Now that is what I call incredible SALES.[/sarcasm]

I glad that steam is a great product for you. It is completely worthless to me & many others. I don't care about anything steam offers. So, I will never have a "you will want to install steam" situation.

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