I am very impressed with some exterior houses mods, like Vince's Mountain Shack.

Now, I am going to address a problem that arises with exterior house mods in general: rainfall through the roof (I am NOT talking about the mountain shack in this case as it handles the rain issue by scripting the weather so it does not rain in its area).

I am making this thread (and I've pm'd Vince my suggestions) and want every modder's feedback here.

The following is my thought proccess, based on a simple concept of one house (one room, one door and one window, nothing else) and how such an exterior house might stop rain/snow from going through the roof. I make 3 points outlining possible ideas for ensuring rain doesn't go into the house itself. I want discussion and feedback as I believe exterior houses in oblivion (where you can see in and out of the windows) is a must. In fact, one day I hope to even create a small cabin just for the heck of it.

OK:

1. When it rains in Oblivion, and you are in water, I'm pretty sure the rain doesn't penetrate through it. So, there MUST be something in the game mechanics to ensure rain doesn't always go through an object, i.e. the roof of an exterior house.

Is there a way you could make the game ''think'' the roof is like the top of the water? So that no rain or snow penetrates it?

2. I also want to add is there a way to simulate rain? i.e. give each raindrop a value of, say, a physical object like an arrow, so that it hits the roof of the house but doesn't go through it?

Perhaps each raindrop (classified as an arrow and modded to look like rain) could disappear on impact?

3. Or maybe commanding that the weather ONLY falls AROUND the house. I know that if you go XX miles south of Bruma, the snow stops, so scripting the weather may be a way to work around the issue too! Like making the rain fall everywhere exepct a scripted circle that surrounds the house, a ''weather shield'' if you like. Could this be a possibility?

Let me know your thoughts.

EDIT: Dusty77, Thanks for amending your intro. I would be pleased if you changed the beginning part of your initial post. The way it read now, is sounds like rain falls through the roof of my http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22846--and it definitely does not. In fact, I've gone to considerabe effort to make sure that it does not.

There are several ways, in principle, one could simulate rain outside an exterior home without it raining inside. If you are skilled with NifSkope and particles and such, you could experiment with the vanilla Oblivion static object RainLite. The problem, as I see it, is an exterior home adds a significant burden to the graphics processor. In practice this limits the size of an exterior home that will be playable by most users. I believe any scheme that simulates rain in a localized way or rain that recognizes collision would further burden the graphics processor. I say this as I have created what I believe are wonderful homes, unlike anything seen in Oblivion so far, that were not released because the frame rate was unacceptable. The wonderfull open home http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u28/VinceB_photo/Avalon.jpg was my favorite--with a frame rate of 2 to 3 FPS! In the future, when the typical system's graphics capability is near our current state of the art, larger exterior homes or exterior homes with simulated rain outside may be practical.

Thanks for your reply mate.

I just amended the intro Vince, sorry about that, I did not intend to imply your Mountain Shack had rain falling through the roof, I meant that in general, the case is that rain does fall through exterior house mods. I hope the intro is now to your liking.

Also, what about the water-surface issue? Is there a way to trick the game mechanics into thinking the roof is like that, so it doesn't fall through? Or creating a ''dry circle'' around the house where rain can't hit it??

I understand the strain on the graphics card, which is why I am asking for help with regards to just a ONE roomed house, even smaller than what you already have.

Your advice is needed Vince! Please take the time to consider my points as I don't know if you've fully considered them.

I have seen a YouTube movie of a no rain mod but I can’t find it

Maybe this helps, if it works make a movie.

Reneers Rain Mod
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29508

If it was possible to make a sheet of rain particles much like the 'FXWaterDrip01' or 'FXLightBeamDust01' etc, something that is limited to a boxed area and can be placed.

They could placed right outside windows and scripted for activation at random times. If the weather was set to not rain as is done by your script Vince, then the rain particles are set to activate when the weather is cloudy. This could easily be combined with rain sound effects that activate at the same time. Voila, it's raining when you look out the window.

Not sure what effect on FPS a particle rain 'sheet' would have. However in an interior/exterior house you have quite a bit of FPS to play with. In an totally exterior home it would not work so well as the player can go outside the house.

However making a 'rain sheet' is entirely out of my area of expertise, but possibly some one as knowledgable as Vince could put it off. So far Vince is the only one that has been able to pull off realistic exterior homes, period. I have two exterior homes in my current wip Pell's Gate that are both interior/exterior homes so this would work beautifully for both. IF it's possible.

As for rain with totally exterior homes such as Vince's Abandoned Shack maybe we need to take a look at how they did it in the Sims 2. Not sure if that would help at all.

Many house modders are currently making a move towards exterior homes or the easier interior/exterior homes as it is the next natural step in progressing.

Unfortunately, from the comments, it seems that Reneers Rain Mod causes a lot of CTD's now. However, if the CTD issues could be fixed, it might be a boon to exterior house modders, depending on the frame rate hit.

Dusty77's enthusiasm on this issue had forced me to go back over my notes on this issue.

It turns out that, at least for Morrowind, what Dusty77 wants has been done, seems reasonably reliable, and according to a pm from the author, only causes a frame rate hit of about 5%. It's Hrnchamd's http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19510. I know what he did for Morrowind, but it would take some reverse engineering to see if something similar could be done for Oblivion. However, contrary to my earlier post, the Code Patch shows that it might be possible to solve the problem for Oblivion without a significant frame rate hit.

Meek, would you remind me what an interior/exterior home is? I think I remember from a conversation we had a while back, but I'm not sure. Since you coined the term "exterior home", maybe others here would like to know what an "interior/exterior" home is.

Sounds promising Vince! And thanks for replying once again in this thread. In fact, thanks to everyone who has contributed, the more minds, the better.

I have to admit: I am very new to modding. In fact, I'm a complete novice. BUT, I am learning fast. I hope to create some small, simple mods and share them once I get my skill rate up somewhere down the line, but right now I'm happy just giving my opinions and trying to hang with the expert modders on this issue. I've actually been very inspired by a couple of modders, one of them is you Vince, and I want to thank you for your ENORMOUS contributions to what you have done with regards to your epic house mods. I've also looked into (but have yet to download) your House Modders Tool Kit which I have been told is the BEST tutorial of it's kind.

I was reading another interesting thread yesterday (but I've misplaced the link and forgot to favourite it, I'll try to find it again and link it here, but anyway...) and the consensus seemed to be that whilst making every home an exterior would be impossible, BUT what WOULD be more possible would be to have a few houses dotted around Cyrodiil, say, 2-4, that would be ''special'' houses that you could get a proper feel for. The Mountain Shack is already number 1, there's no doubt about that, and Vince, you've set a new standard that should be recognised by all REAL fans of TES, so I think other complementary mods could be simple beach huts or swamp cabins (not neccessarily made by you, though if you wanted to, you could do and I'm sure everyone would look forward to it/them, but I'm merely talking possibilities for future homes here). Anyway, just having a few exterior homes makes the game FAR more exciting and gives these homes an extra sense of style that you just can't find anywhere else in game.

End note: oh, I forgot to add, another member on Tesnexus mentioned something about a ''giant collision box'' that he has placed on top of his roof to keep the rain off. The link to the thread is here: http://thenexusforums.com/index.php?showtopic=184613&st=10

I think the guy who had the idea tried to contact you Vince, but he said your inbox was full or something (he mentioned this on another thread, which you can see here: http://thenexusforums.com/index.php?showtopic=203339 ) so maybe you could either pm him or make a comment in that thread? This giant collision box, does anyone know how effective they are? It sounds potentially very promising.

Vince, I saw your replies over at the links and have asked a question over at link 2. I can simply paste it here so you can choose which thread to answer it in.

Ok:

I have a request if I may: have you (or would you consider) giving a step by step tutorial (it doesn't need to be overly in-depth, just something the layman can get his/her head around) for creating a basic, single-roomed shack that explains to the novice modder how he/she should get started? I'm not sure if you have given one in your Modder's Toolkit as I haven't yet downloaded it, so this is why I'm asking out of curiosity. I have been told that it is a great tutorial but my friend did not specify if it used a step by step approach. I emailed him but am yet to recieve a reply, so I am asking you also (after all, you made the mod and will know it inside and out!)

Now, I have tried to custom make a house/shack several times, but I must admit, the whole task has had me tearing my hair out in frustration. At the moment I finally think I've aced it, it turns out I didn't. This in itself is annoying somewhat and where a decent tutorial would come in handy. If you haven't written one, do you know of anyone who has?

And how did you first learn this stuff? Are you self taught? Thanks, Dusty

oh and btw, Top of the World looks fantastic, am looking forward to trying that out!

final note: I made a new thread, testing one of my theories and it DOES work, but it needs serious attention: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1092402-challenge-for-modders/

By interior/exterior home I mean a house built in an interior cell that simulates the exterior, like http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/Shezrie/ScreenShot139.jpg or http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/Shezrie/ScreenShot238.jpg. While not as good as a true exterior home, it is the next best thing and a good compromise especially as the homes can be larger.

You can of course set the weather in an interior cell but your choices are sunny all the time or all weather with your scripts to remove rain. However if it was possible to have an FX sheet of rain to go right outside each window, it would allow houses with views and proper weather that feel like true exterior homes. One possible solution to the need for exterior homes.

I was disappointed when Avalon proved to be an FPS killer, that house is my dream house. That said, you know my feelings on your Abandoned Shack that has graced the front page of ORE ever since it was released. So far nothing has come close. I would love to see more homes like it, so if there is a solution to the rain problem that would allow more true exterior homes I sure hope we can find it.

Meek, hi there, I agree, I hope this issue can be sorted out. I have also made a very engaging thread I hope you (And Vince) will participate in: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1092402-challenge-for-modders/

There's a great discussion going and it would be fantastic to get more viewpoints!

Meek, thanks for reminding me about the interior/exterior homes. I should not have forgotten, but my memory is gone and I can't remember where it went.

I think we share feelings about Avalon--maybe some day .... Oh, and thanks for your enthusiastic support of my Abandoned Mountain Shack.

I think convincing rain could be simulated for an interior/exterior home using a partially transparent animated texture. Once I finish solving the conflict between the shack's interactive garden and Harvest Flora, I'll see what I can do about a rain texture.

Personally, I've never thought the lack of rain (when using scripts to avoid raining "inside") was that big a deal. Given a choice, I would much rather solve the shadows from statics problem. On a sunny morning, having the sunlight streaming in from a window into an otherwise dark interior would really add to the realism in my view.

The reason I think rain looks good is because when you're ''safe'' from both the bad weather and the creatures, you really feel ''alive'' in-game.

Ok, Vince (And everyone else), try this: take away all armour/shields, repair hammers, sigil stones/varla stones/soul gems, health potions and alchemy ingredients. Equip just one Iron Longsword and a spell of your choice. Turn the difficulty way up to 3/4+ to the right. Disable the display screen so you have no map nor any idea how high your health/magicka is.

Then spawn yourself at Brotch Camp where usually two aggressive bandits await. Maybe spawn an extra two if you've used the CS to add them.

Now try to make it back to the shack.

Trust me, if/when you ever make it back, and especially if it's getting dark/the weather is bad, you'll see what I mean about the effects here.