I don't claim to know everything about lore. I only know a few bits and pieces. So I'd really like others thoughts of interpretations on this hypothetical situation. Only a little unofficial thinking on my part, so don't get too heated about it. Really just a random thought pertaining to lore after all. There's probably lore that makes it impossible but maybe not. :shrug:

The situation is this:

As we all know, Azura has a blindingly beautiful realm ( Moonshadow ), where colors run like water, there are waterfalls, flowers, ect. From what I gather, things follow a pattern of nature in it's beauty: Unruly, unorganized, randomly mixed, ect in it's makeup.

Now lets just say for the argument that Jyggalag also had a blindingly beautiful realm too ( I unoffically refer to it as Harmony to tie a name to it), but for all the opposite reasons that makes Moonshadow beautiful. His realm is basically symmetrical, congruent, angled, precise, ect. Not to mention all those shiny prisms jutting about.

From what I can gather and enlighten me if I'm wrong, Jyggalag, who was getting quite powerful, wasn't really liked all too well by the other Daedric princes, and was seen as quite a bit of a threat to them. And Azura has a bit of a jealous and attention streak to her. So for a unliked and possibly threating prince like Jyggalag to have a realm as beautiful as Moonshadow I would think could ruffle her feathers a bit.

Now based on this (as well as prior knowledge people know of Azura and Jyggalag), how likely could it have been that Azura could've played a very big role in getting Jyggalag cursed with madness? With Jyggalag maddened into Sheogorath his realm would've easily fallen into disarray ( The swampish Shivering Isles under Sheogorath ), leaving Moonshadow once again to be the only Blindingly beautiful realm. Plus it could've upped her standing with other princes too (if they have some kind of respect system at least or knew about it).

Your thoughts and knowledge?

She definitely has it in her, but OB Lore states that Jyggalags downfall was on account of his power as a daedric prince, not so much the beauty of his realm. If Azura was in any way peeved about how beautiful his little land of order was, then it is likely that she would've been MORE angrier about his power.

If I was to guess, based on the personalities and traits of all the Daedric Princes, then yes, I would count her as one of ones more likely to be a major player in Jyggy's fall from grace.

There's a mighty few problems with that:

Sheogorath isn't a "mad Jyg" but a separate, yet related being.
We've seen Jyg's realm (at least part of it) its all gray and not very appeasing to the eyes.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I found the Shivering Isles to be quite beautiful.
Azura helped free Jyg from his curse...see Dawfang/Duskfang
Azura's sphere isn't beauty, beauty is just a side-effect.

The more likely reason they conspired against him was that Jyg "didn't belong". He's of Anu, and was for some reason in Oblivion. The other princes were being xenophobic, so supressed him and brought out his other. Or they did nothing and Shezarr and his half-assed world building did it for them.

Disclaimer: Haven't played SI

So how does the Daedra's petty curse square with the explanation that the volatility of the Mundus destabilized Jyg?

Has anyone hypothesized that he is some sort of shattered, rejected gift-limb?

Shivering Isles doesn't give allot of information on Jyg's transformation and who where involved and the metaphyscial Lore is rather sketchy on that period as well but if Azura was involved, It would probebly be her motive, it sounds exactly like her.

Do you know her personally by any chance?

The whole realm Beauty versus realm Beauty thing I'd imagine as more of a modifier myself. Sort of like how you can feel threatened by someone for one thing, and have another thing about them augment that feeling even more.

My thoughts were that Azura like the others didn't like Jyggalag because of how powerful he was getting, and that having a realm just as beautiful to compete with Moonshadow's beauty made her not like how powerful he was getting even more. So based on that initial dislike along with the jealous factor of having a realm just as beautiful, Azura could've had more potential involvement in knocking Jyggalag down from his powerful position. Course that's how I figure it hypothetically.

Realm beauty is definitely up to interpretation. Even though we've only seen glimpses of Jyggalags realm, there really isn't much to show how it really could've looked and acted. Unofficially I like to imagine that as the realm built up, that the prisms and such would start reverberating to each other more with greater result. And as the realm grew greater and greater, and that more Order spires and buildings were created, those things would start to glow or shine from that growth and power of reverberation. Then eventually instead of just Dull Grey prisms you'd end up with something much more vibrant. Although still grey, just more vibrant. Sort of like how vibrant the http://daapspace4.daap.uc.edu/~blocksk/images/fortress.jpg looks, of all places. But just more Ordered.

Beautiful in that cold sense. Where as Moonshadow is sort of Beautiful in a Warmer sense I'd imagine.


Daedric Prince's Dislike + petty feelings / Mortal Worship + Mortal plane stability = Getting Jyggy with it?

Not strong enough in lore to give an definite answer to that. Something to do with how actions of mortals on Mundus gave the princes the boost they needed to stop Jyggalag with just a curse instead of having to fight a war against him? I've got nothing. :shrug:


Probably not as much as other's might. It's all just from what I can gather from the existing threads and knowledge. A bit jealous of things, attention seeking, wanting praise, and can be temperamental especially about petty things?

Muthsera, I would disagree, mainly due to way that Sheogorath described his relationship to Jyggalag:



I have taken the words "we're a bit of each other, really" into account. I still say that having a multiple personality does not make one a separate entity, thus I believe that Sheogorath/Jyggalag is one entity, not two entities that cannot exist at the same time.

Respectfully submitted under the auspices of JHUNAL and Valandrus Abor, I remain...

Yours in the Scrolls,


___The Word Merchant of Julianos

Muthsera Worm Parchment, has Vehk not taught you that evryone is a bit of everything because everyone is everything.

Moving along...

My view on Jyg and Sheo are similar to my view on Trinimalacath, that Malacath was created by Rinimac acting opposite his sphere, so was Jyg forced to act outside of his sphere because he no longer could once the variable fate of NIRN was sundered to the Aurbis.

In short, headasplode.

Aye, serjo, aye. But love is now under MY will only.


___The Word Merchant of [I].

You stole vivec's muatra? You sly one you-- Better watch out though. I hear vivec's revenge can be terrifying. (ask the redguard kings.)

He doesn't need it anymore.....and I'm getting married in June.

As for the honeymoon, NONE SHALL SURVIVE!

___The Word Merchant of :goodjob:

Thus Spoke the Word Merchant: [censored]

Forgive my fast thoughts and faster fingers. I know how you at the Julianos Scribe harlet Academy do not take kindly to that kind if thing...

Chide thou not this kindly sage
Whilst he does his part to hold the cage
And wars to wage
Round the throat age after age

Of the Dragon.
Tip thy flagon, my friend
For to the end, with tails a'waggin'

Does JHUNAL et Mora's worth go saggin'.


(You grab that end and I'll grab the other. )

___The Word Merchant of [Cell Bar #7]

Thus spake the turd merchant of Julianos.

Erhm.... I mean, the word merchant.

If I had a nickel for everytime I've heard that. No thanks, not into that. Write your letter with bones, adress the academy, adress the pimp and the priest and tell them that the Herma and the Mora have encased them thusly.

All language is based on meat, remember? No word is true until eaten. What happens after you eat? :nuke:


I'm guess I'm talkin [censored], right?


___The Word Merchant of.....hey, that ain't cool...(anybody got a TicTac?) :ahhh:

I wonder if Jyggalag was able to foresee his own betrayal and curse.

I doubt it, else he would have taken steps to prevent it.

Also, there is no evidence to conclusively show that Jyggalag was the first "sheogorath". Who is this Arden-Sul character? What about Agnon?

___TWM

Arden-Sul was a prophet, sort of the Jesus of the Shivering Isles. The Zealots believe him to be the mortal aspect of Sheogorath. And the Manic and Demented argue over his life and death.

Your thinking that way.. I see.

He couldn't prevent it. Madness was born out of Lorkhan's creation. The act of his binding is intertwined with it, and no-one could predict that, not Jyg and not the eight then-still et'Ada.

As for Arden Sul.. He was first, and always the one which is still. I view Arden Sul as the "timeline in which you became Sheogorath". If you imagine the entire timeline of SI (from the moment of creation, to "now") it's a circle with one "tail" leading in/out (depends on view angle which way it goes).

The "tail" end is the one of life of Arden Sul that is the mortal who became the MadGod, while the cycle is the typical Graymarch timeline of repeating Madness. Where the tail is connected to the cycle, there it begins and ends as well.

The question is, if the current tail-er indeed made it end and thus linear again. (don't forget, Oblivion realms ARE linear, if nothing else then by choice, since the spirits consider it to be simpler to exist in such state as well. They might perceive Dragon-lessness and even exist in it, but they do like to have "a" before "b". I forgot which is the source for this tho..)