Sorry if this is answered in another thread, but do you guys think from what Todd Howard said in the podcast that attributes and birthsigns are in the game or taken out? I think I missed that part. I dont even think it was asked...

They are no more.

From "The Only thing you'll chose is your race" I don't think so.

Didn't Todd say that "the most important thing you'll choose is your race"?

I fear for birthsigns. Attributes can be implemented in other ways under the hood, but birthsigns were nice for mixing it up a bit and I would be sad to see them go.

Yeah I totally agree with you. Attributes = choice of magicka, health or stamina now. But birthsigns are COOL!

It all depends on how the "traits" system works and what are in them. Why have a Sign that gives you a +10 in a skill when you will get it eventually? Or a Sign
that gives you a magic power, wich you can get else where.

Again, everyone can start different, but usually they all end up the same in the end. I am actually looking forward to this "develope your character class" as you go.
Lots of times, I make a custom class, only that it changes as I play. So now I can be who ever I want to be and not worry about the "class" I choose. I usually start
like a thief mage character but sometimes change to warrior because I just have more fun. So now I don't have to feel bad or worry that I am not roll playing as a
thief, or Battlemage, or what not. I am what I become.

I can't remember how many perks we get. was it 280 or 180? All I know is we can't have them all, so hopefully there will not be like in New Vegas, perks you never
would take and would want them all. This way restarting a new game will actually be a different feel to the game. One thing that bothered me about Fallout and NV
is when restarting a new game, my character felt the same. Hopefully this will not happen in Skyrim.

There are about 280 perks total, but you can only pick 50 with one character. So you'll need to make 6 different characters if you want to try out all the perks. :goodjob:

Ya, I like this too!

Boosts to attributes/skills could easily be perks. But I wonder if something like The Atronach would be a reasonable "perk". Both my favorite Oblivion character and my current (and first ever) Morrowind character have The Atronach. Not that I will be heartbroken if an equivalent is not in, but at least a touch nostalgic.

It will be strange if attributes like strength and intelligence is gone, you can easy automate the attribute increase then you increase skills, multiple Oblivion mods do this.
Is it any RPG games without attributes? Just the idea sounds strange to me.

I guess birthsigns are replaced with perks, closest would probably be starting perks who fill much of the same role.

Not confirmed. Just because Todd only mentioned picking your race in the podcast doesn't mean "OMG THEY'RE GONE NOW!!!! YAY/BOO!!!!"

As for my opinion, don't care much for birthsigns, but would hate to see attributes gone. And no, not the way attributes leveled (I disliked that as well), but attributes in general.

Yep, so Todd only mentioned race being the "main decision" you make at character creation. Which doesn't rule out birthsigns, but it perhaps means that whatever effects they have are pretty minor (if they exist at all)

I hope they're still in, if only because they're an established part of the lore: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-firmament and http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-firmament

Then again, Daggerfall had only three starsigns - Warrior, Mage, and Thief. Perhaps Skyrim is going to return to this scheme of the birthsigns? This might help to explain the slightly odd decision of making Alchemy a Stealth skill, even though, as Todd admitted, it doesn't really matter given the new class system. Perhaps it only matters to the extent that when you choose one of the three birthsigns, you get some sort of slight bonus to the skills under that birthsign, and it would have been unfair/unbalanced if choosing the Mage birthsign got you a bonus to seven skills, whereas choosing the Thief birthsign got you a bonus to only five skills..... Maybe?

The coolest birthsigns were things like The Atronach which actually change the way you play and required you to understand how they worked to weigh the risks and rewards. Otherwise, they were pretty boring.

If attributes are removed I'm guessing the skill catagories will govern your old attributes

Example

Overall Combat lvl = HP/Physical Dmg/Defense Bonus
Overall Magic lvl = Magicka Capacity / Magicka Regeneration/Magical Dmg
Overall Stealth lvl = Speed/Fatigue Capacity/Fatigue Regeneration

Luck could be based on equipment or your level in general.

This is just a quick example of how easy it would be to change things and keep them at the same time, it's just a diffrent method and it's based on how you play... I mean if all your doing is casting spells to level in oblivion how is it I'm raising my strength anyhow?

While I could deal with the loss of birthsigns (Wont like it, but could live without it), if the game has abandonned attributes, that'll be the last straw. I wont buy.

You obviously have a great deal of passion for this game, but relax and just wait untill it's released or more information is given out. Have a little faith in a company that has been doing this series for YEARS. You know they love this game too, and you can bet they want to make all of us happy.

I am awaiting more information, but I'm already on the ragged edge of how many things have been "stream-lined". If attributes were cut, I'm not going to waste money on a game I wont likely enjoy, I'd be better served spending it on car parts.

Again, I hope to hear it's a case of misinterpretation, this series is my favourite.

Birhtsigns cannot be removed, it would break a lot of lore, and tradition. Attributes I don't really care how they're done. I'm not really worried if they aren't in, what I know is that Bethesda aren't going to say 'here is your speed, encumberance, magicka regen etc and you are stuck with it for the entire game.' If they aren't in, Bethesda will use other means to produce the same effects, which will most likely be perks. So everyone: Please STOP WORRYING!!!

The only thing he confirmed was the removal of classes

Speaking of which, I don't recall seeing any implementation of the birth signs prior to Morrowind. There was the advantages-disadvantages system in the character generation menu in Daggerfall, though (which I would really like to see its return).

Who said attributes are out?? From how I've understood it, they are dynamical and increase outside of leveling, like skills also increase outside of leveling. Boost you two handed skill might increase your strength, while one handed might increase both strength and agility, but slower than the two handed increases strength. Casting spells and getting better at skills might increase your intelligence and willpower. Without having to choose the attribute when leveling. It was not cool at all to have to get +5 +5 and +5 before leveling to maximize the attributes, with this system I think there is, the problem is solved.

If attributes are completely gone, I'll buy Dark Souls first.

Just looked up UESP and you're right, Daggerfall didn't have birthsigns, but I still think it has become lore since then, I'll chack up the Imperial Library sometime. It doesn't really matter though anyway, for me the birthsign was just for fun.

Also, the Daggerfall character creation stuff look really interesting (I don't know much about the TES games before Morrowind lol).

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/history-and-depictions-constellations-0

That's the relevant info about the history of birthsigns/constellations in TES.

I think it's a reasonable possibility that we'll see a return to the Daggerfall system.

I hope birthsigns are added!

Thanks. Looks like it isn't as set in lore as I had thought, oh well, I'll still buy and love the game *stares at Romeo-Reject*