Guards...how now?

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:38 pm

As an underpin, i quite enjoyed the justice system in red dead redemption. where:
-if a crime was committed in front of a guard/officer then you got a bounty
-if a crime was committed in front of a civilian(s) but no guards/officers were present, then you didnt get a bounty but the witnesses would run to the nearest official/guard and tell them. if they succeeded in doing so you would then get a bounty. these witness could be stopped/killed/bribed.
-if a crime was committed whilst nobody is around then you dont get any bounty.

A stealth assassination of a guard shouldnt result in an immediate 1000 gold bounty.
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Elizabeth Davis
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:33 am

well, they are nords

STOP YOU HAVE VIOLATED THE LAW, GET YOUR HEAD SPLIT OPEN WITH AN AXE OR GET YOUR HEAD SPLIT OPEN WITH AN AXE, ALL YOUR STOLEN GOODS ARE NOW MINE
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Eire Charlotta
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:51 am

I just want the guards to stop being so freaking perfect! They drive me nuts. They are not real. They never sleep on duty. They chase you to death. They see, hear and know everything. They are kamikaze. They are loyal until death and beyond, they never surrender, they have no instinct of self preserving. I can understand that guards are people chosen from the most virtuous citizens but come on... make some of them more human, more vulnerable to different means of corruption. I think even the static guards who defend a gate should have some alert radius to leave their post and inspect nearby noises/shadows. I like the guards in Thief because they drink and let me speculate on their weaknesses.
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Greg Cavaliere
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:56 am

I wrote something about this a couple of days ago.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1164296-criminal-activities/page__p__17115914__hl__crime__fromsearch__1#entry17115914
Here were the main points
-Guards don’t draw swords unless it’s a major crime (murder, you know really bad stuff), for minor crimes they try and subdue you; give them a truncheon or something to try and knock you out. If the guard knocks you down you get put in irons and hauled off to jail.
-Regional crimes, no more every guard, everywhere, knows you’re a shoplifter 3 seconds after you do it, maybe by implementing some couriers going from town to town on occasion, petty crimes get sent along with other news and may be disseminated within a week, but mass murder and major heists get their own special messenger and people hear about it in a day or two.
-If a guard thinks you are being suspicious (sneaking around town, out at night with a sack marked “loot”) they should try to question you, giving an opportunity for some sort of speechcraft challenge, if you win, they leave you alone, maybe slightly more vigilant, otherwise you are asked to come to come to the guardpost for further questioning.
-Better detection of stolen goods, why would anyone care that you stole that particular apple six months ago? As said elsewhere, some items (food, forks, random junk) no one should care if it’s stolen or you simply can’t tell one from the other. Larger things that people care about, but may not be able to distinguish (a vase, a sword) should be tracked as stolen but the risk of carrying it should vary by time and location and have some sort of indicator, while important and unique items are always considered stolen and you have to rely on a fence to sell it for you. A possible method of how stolen items should be tracked is by using a hand indicator like in oblivion and changing the color to indicate how likely you are to be caught.
Something like:
Red: people are on the lookout, confiscated if arrested, only sellable to fences.
Orange: moderate vigilance, may have problems selling locally or to honest types.
Green: no one looking, should have no problem selling.
White: item not reported yet, can sell, but likely to have problems if reported later.
With the progression of white to red to orange to green and then the theft marker is removed.
The speed of the transitions should be something like a week for little cheap things, to maybe a month or two for the lager stuff that isn’t that unique.

Anyway, those were my thoughts on the matter.


I agree with everything on this topic.
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XPidgex Jefferson
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:31 am

If I stab someone in the throat, I don't see how they'd be able to call a guard. I also don't see how anyone else can telepathically sense when I do said throat-stabbing from outside the victims house.
In short, no more telepathic guards please. Unless you are actually seen or heard by someone who could realistically do either of those things, then report it, I should not be getting a bounty on my head.
Of course, if you're in a village of farmers who own no weapons and only have one guard to report them, it wouldn't take the detective skills of Batman to figure out who chopped farmer Bob's head off, but you get my point.

I wrote something about this a couple of days ago.

Criminal Activities
Here were the main points
-Guards don’t draw swords unless it’s a major crime (murder, you know really bad stuff), for minor crimes they try and subdue you; give them a truncheon or something to try and knock you out. If the guard knocks you down you get put in irons and hauled off to jail.
-Regional crimes, no more every guard, everywhere, knows you’re a shoplifter 3 seconds after you do it, maybe by implementing some couriers going from town to town on occasion, petty crimes get sent along with other news and may be disseminated within a week, but mass murder and major heists get their own special messenger and people hear about it in a day or two.
-If a guard thinks you are being suspicious (sneaking around town, out at night with a sack marked “loot”) they should try to question you, giving an opportunity for some sort of speechcraft challenge, if you win, they leave you alone, maybe slightly more vigilant, otherwise you are asked to come to come to the guardpost for further questioning.
-Better detection of stolen goods, why would anyone care that you stole that particular apple six months ago? As said elsewhere, some items (food, forks, random junk) no one should care if it’s stolen or you simply can’t tell one from the other. Larger things that people care about, but may not be able to distinguish (a vase, a sword) should be tracked as stolen but the risk of carrying it should vary by time and location and have some sort of indicator, while important and unique items are always considered stolen and you have to rely on a fence to sell it for you. A possible method of how stolen items should be tracked is by using a hand indicator like in oblivion and changing the color to indicate how likely you are to be caught.
Something like:
Red: people are on the lookout, confiscated if arrested, only sellable to fences.
Orange: moderate vigilance, may have problems selling locally or to honest types.
Green: no one looking, should have no problem selling.
White: item not reported yet, can sell, but likely to have problems if reported later.
With the progression of white to red to orange to green and then the theft marker is removed.
The speed of the transitions should be something like a week for little cheap things, to maybe a month or two for the lager stuff that isn’t that unique.

Anyway, those were my thoughts on the matter.

This sounds good, but I have some thoughts.

Even an item that is unique and highly prized should be sellable to a merchant in that very city, provided you can convince him to take it off your hands or the merchant in question doesn't know that anyone owns this artifact and values it greatly. In any other city you should have no troule at all selling this, unless you happen to stop by the store of the owners cousin who visits him once a month to admire the artifact in question. In short, make it real.

If i was to walk into the Louvre and somehow steal the Mona Lisa, nobody would buy that from me. I refuse to believe anyone would be that stupid and somehow make enough money to pay for it in the first place. However, if I was to break into a museum and steal some ancient vase, then I could realistically sell it to some collector or art dealer rich enough to buy it without much trouble, provided I could convince them or they left their ethical code at home that morning.

Items that are essentially junk should not be suspicious in the least, a fork is a fork and unless it's engraved with the family emblem of the Count of Forksville then I don't see why anyone would give a crap. Food should follow roughly the same logic, an apple is an apple and nobody is going to care, though I'm not sure why someone would buy an apple or any food off some random schmuck walking into their store.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I'd also like to se guards sleeping on the job, drunk on the job, abusing their power and generally being human beings. Bribing a guard too look the other way or let you off the hook should absolutely be possible and if you're imposing enough you should be able to intimidate them, is catching some criminal really worth being horribly murdered? No, not really.
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Angelina Mayo
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:19 am

I just want the guards to stop being so freaking perfect! They drive me nuts. They are not real. They never sleep on duty. They chase you to death. They see, hear and know everything. They are kamikaze. They are loyal until death and beyond, they never surrender, they have no instinct of self preserving. I can understand that guards are people chosen from the most virtuous citizens but come on... make some of them more human, more vulnerable to different means of corruption. I think even the static guards who defend a gate should have some alert radius to leave their post and inspect nearby noises/shadows. I like the guards in Thief because they drink and let me speculate on their weaknesses.


Yeah, not every guard should be Robocop, it would make sense that sometimes they run away, or just give up. If I mange to out run them and get out of town, it would be nice to see them decide that I wasn't worth following and just leave me alone.

What would be funny is if there were situations where if you kill a couple of people, them bribe or otherwise convince a guard that it was someone else, then they serve the time.
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Alexxxxxx
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:26 am

Morrowind:
"Move along...." "Keep MOVing...."


What were we, cattle? Hahaha....

In Oblivion guards were calm sociopaths, staring right through you as if you were nobody and is they were hopelessly invisible. But guards by nature want to feel powerful, so they want you to notice THEM. So they always are demonstrating their toughness, and swaggering, and if someone bigger comes along, they want to lord over you their power in being able to allow or deny you entry into the town. The player is a bigtime hero, but they never even acknowledged us at all unless it was plot driven by main characters. I think if a bigshot like me came to town in those midieval days, there would be a guard posted to watch him at all times unless the city learned to trust him. And then when he came, even though the city trusted him, the guards would still act suspicious and even mess with you from time to time.

"What is your business here? Mm, hm, riiiigght. Let me see your inventory, I want to check you for stolen items then you can proceed. What, if you have nothing to hide, it should be no trouble for you... unless...."
{You give permission to check your items but you know there are several stolen things there, now your hearts racing...] "Ahh, what do we have here? I see more than a few minor stolen items here. I don't really think the trouble is worth reporting, do you? As long, as say, 300 of your gold were to accidentally fall into my pouch here.... then you'll be on your way!"

Choices; 1) Resist and battle guard as normal with every guard now after you ... 2) Challenge the guard to a duel, if you lose you go to jail and pay twice the usual fee, if you win, you pay nothing but that guards disposition towards you drops 50 points. 3) Pay the bribe 4) go to jail (stat decreases and loss of stolen items) ....

That could get ugly real quick. Not sure I'd want every guard to act that way, obviously, it would get tedious. But once in a while, just one or two guards who act like that, could give more immersion and credibility to the system. After all, people are people, and are usually corrupt in some way when the pressures of life become weighed against us. The guards should reflect that more.
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priscillaaa
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:14 pm

I don't want guards to randomly harass me for no reason they should not bother you unless they see you commit a crime.
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Lawrence Armijo
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:27 am

I remember one time in oblivion going and simply stealing an apple! Then I got every guard in the IC after me and traveled across Tamriel over to Bruma on foot with them still after me picked up more guards there and continued going to every major city in the game...I had a special save file I was doing this on (so not to mess with my main character) just working on getting every guard in the game after me...for stealing one little apple.
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Sara Johanna Scenariste
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:10 am

I really hope it isn't like oblivion...


That is all

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RaeAnne
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:05 am

i never understood why the gaurds didnt save the day in Oblivion considering they were always stronger than you and every thing.
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Silencio
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:36 pm

As long as I don't have a guard making a beeline for me after I pickpocketed a guy and have him say

"STOP! YOU VIOLATED THE LAW!..."

"THEN PAY WITH YOUR BLOOD!"

and have 100 guards on my behind just because I don't like his cheesy dialogue and failed to pickpocket someone.

I'll be happy.

Niker
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Ludivine Dupuy
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:08 am

If I slap Jensine, and God knows she has it comin', and the town guard loves me and his disposition is at 90+, then when Jensine reports me for slapping her, I expect the guard to not only disregard her wild accusations, but to slap her again for me as well.


:rofl:
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carla
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:44 pm

I remember one time in oblivion going and simply stealing an apple! Then I got every guard in the IC after me and traveled across Tamriel over to Bruma on foot with them still after me picked up more guards there and continued going to every major city in the game...I had a special save file I was doing this on (so not to mess with my main character) just working on getting every guard in the game after me...for stealing one little apple.

Then did you lead them into an Oblivion gate and trapped 'em all?
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Ria dell
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:27 pm

Would be nice to see your bounty varying with location - the civil war gives some interesting opportunities. Criminals in one city could be heroes in another.
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suniti
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:22 pm

The guards should be omniscient as they were in the previous games (especially Oblivion). The only way you could kill an NPC were if you did a quest. The quests for the Dark Brotherhood were the only way to stay out of trouble. I couldn't even kill a sheep without having the guards pursuing me.

All I'm saying is that the guards knowledge should be limited to the degree when it's fun to kill. It should take some time to clearify witnesses and the guards knowing everything.
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Beulah Bell
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:32 am

Guards shouldn't follow the player - they should try to head them off and give chase. If I'm running from a guard and suddenly take an alley the guard wasn't expecting and didn't see, I expect his clanky ass to keep on going, not [RECALCULATING] GOTCHA!

I wouldn't mind having a particularly [censored] guard, either. He'll always give you [censored] until you do the mini-quest that either shuts him up, gets rid of him, or you get rid of him.

Stolen items should be handled in a mixture between Fallout 3 and Oblivion. Stolen goods under a certain value (500, 250, etc) are easy to sell to any merchant because one assumes cheap goods aren't rare goods. The more expensive the stolen good is the harder it is to sell to a merchant. A Fence would then not be a last resort but a prevention mechanism - you go to a fence to bypass the selling difficulty, but you get less money, BUT you run less of a risk of the merchant getting suspicious and reporting you and such. And making friends with merchants and fences should be a good thing. Let's say that Thoronir is the merchant in question. You meet him in the tavern, have a few meads with him, do him some favours, and after a certain disposition level you get a fence quest update/dialogue indicator/some kind of notification that "Thoronir might just interested in certain goods." Making friends with a fence could net you better prices and "job" offers.
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Catherine N
 
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