Hey Hey
With the impending release of Fallout: New Vegas. I am curious about the issue of buying the steam version of the game. Its convenient for me since I can easily download it and such. However, I own the normal version of FO3 and I mod the HELL out of it.
My question is does using the steam version inhibit using mods? I know steam is really picky about running games outside of their steam engine and always auto-updating or not allowing you to play. I remember with FO3, there was awhile where updating broke a lot of mods. Does anyone using FO3: Steam version, encounter any issues using mods?
I am just wondering before I buy it. Since I am a mod [censored].

edit:

I havent heard of any problems via steam (then again im not totally up to date in the fallout section), however you dont need to worry about updates anymore, bethesda have finished updating fallout 3.

Well I already own FO3. I am going to byu New Vegas and I wanted to buy it via steam. I just wanted to make sure no one has had issues with FO3 via steam first.

I use the Steam version of Oblivion, and I haven't had any problems with mods. Considering that Oblivion was released on Steam more recently, I'd say it's a fair guide as to how mod support in Steam will be - which, by the sound of things, seems to be somewhere around excellent.

I don't know why everybody thinks that Steam blocks games and forces you to update when you don't want to. Stuff like that rarely, if ever, happens - the new version of Steam seems to be a lot more stable than the old one.

I have the Steam version and every mod i've ever tried has worked perfectly. Only thing to watch out for is that if you have Steam in Program Files folder and use Vista or 7, UAC may cause issues.

BTW, Steam Oblivion initially had trouble with OBSE, IIRC Valve modified the Oblivion Steam executable to allow it to run. FOSE for Fallout 3 worked with no such tweaks required.

Yep. The reason for that, however, was because (IIRC) the Steam executable for Fallout 3 had no changes other than having its copy protection removed (or was that not there in the first place)? They did a more thorough job in Oblivion, making you need to launch it with Steam - unlike Fallout 3, which due to its lack of protection could be launched without Steam as long as you didn't use the launcher. Thus, the OBSE modification was required.

If anything, this should show that Valve at least gives a damn about the modding community, and is willing to help sort things out. Thus, I see no reason to doubt that New Vegas will have any issue with mod support - even with Steamworks integrated. Naturally, those who've never used Steam or known Valve probably think Steam's some sort of useless DRM software, but you can't really fault someone for being cautious.

Fixed for Alien Swarm/Garry's Mod/Team Fortress.

The difference is that Fallout 3 had the copy protection in the launcher, while Oblivion had it in the main executable. Since FOSE bypasses the launcher anyway, Steam was not an issue for FOSE at all. You'll still see Steam launch any time you run the launcher for regenerating your INI or any other reason.

Beth has said several times that while they are well-integrated into Steamworks, they've gone to some lengths to make sure it doesn't interfere with the player's use of the game at all.

It's still possible that an update could break some mods, but you can disable automatic updates for NV only and wait till you hear from others before you install any updates that are released. That shouldn't interfere with playing the game since NV has no online component.

I can't fault them for being cautious either. However, in the NV forum, I have seen so many outright falsehoods and absurd irrational suppositions about future Steam service changes made by Steamhaters that I wanna tear my hair out. That isn't caution.

& the irrational Steamfans (not everyone siding with Steam just the more extreme ones) doesn't help Steam convert those of us who would like that Beth games not be exclusively steamed.

I do believe you were the one talking about a Steam conspiracy to control all the PC game market?

And also blaming Steam for client game companies being boneheaded and putting more DRM on the game?

Case in point.

But let's not have that whole debate spill over here.

I do believe that is Steam's ultimate goal to control all PC game distribution,

but no I didn't blame steam for other companies adding DRM I was merely pointing out that on Steam some companies do add DRM like some add drm on top of the D2D service (not steam's fault like it's not D2D's) in response to the remark against the guy who claimed that Steamworks was a Trojan horse as it is if it's not mentioned beforehand (thankfully Beth did) Apparently you did misunderstand me just a bit & I'm sorry I didn't word it better in the other thread.

man, Steamworks polarized the community.

The argument isn't whether steam is good or bad. If anyone wants to use it that is fine for them. The option of using it is not there which upsets the pc game community getting stuck with a program that is not only completely useless to most customers its not even relevant to the game it is attached to.

Get angry all you want or be complacent. The crap that goes on like that will kill the pc gaming industry over time.

Its almost gone as it is. Not even being paranoid about it. Years ago multiple stores use to be around and just sell PC games. Now, its barely even a single shelf of them. The only change isn't people buying fewer computers or even more consoles. Its because of crappy game making on top of shenanigans like Steam and draconian crapware. Plus flat out blatant abuse of customer base like sony and others.

:facepalm:

Steam. Is. Not. Just. DRM. It. Is. A. Content. Delivery. Service.

And do you know what that means it is? The very "exclusive PC game store" that you lament the disappearance of. It has been reborn like a phoenix.

:ahhh: :banghead:







Did I misinterpret?

It is only polarizing because some people refuse to understand it. The most crippling kind of blindness is when one will not see.

Starforce isn't relevant to the game it's attached to. But it's there. Steamworks DRM through Steam is essentially the same thing, except unlike Starforce et al you can turn it off when you're not playing a game. The only difference is that most existing DRM methods are sneaky and hidden and so out of sight, out of mind. It's ironic that Steamworks being open and honest and easily controllable actually makes people like it less than traditional rootkit-style, background-running sneaky bastard DRM methods.

Shelfspace dropped to 1-2 years before Steam started having decent games on it thanks to Amazon, Play.com and other online retailers. Brick & mortar stores make their sales to people who browse- casual gamers who are looking for 'a game', as if you want to buy a specific game then you'll look it up online and buy it at 20% off from an online retailer. Thus, the more 'serious business' PC gaming market tends to buy through online retailers, because they know what they want, and don't browse- so there's less shelf-space offline to cater for them.

Also, come on, "PC gaming is dying"? Welcome to the late 90s. And early 2000s. And mid 2000s. And today, and tomorrow, and forever- people have *always* been predicting the death of PC gaming, which seems like a remarkably stupid thing to do when there's a sudden burst of growth in indie and small publisher games thanks to direct-to-drive services. For a recent example, look up Carpe Fulgur- a two-man startup that just localised the indie japanese RPG Recettear and racked up tens of thousands of sales over the space of a few months thanks to d2d services- something they could never have done with brick and mortar stores and the need for a publisher/distributor.

Yes & I already apologized for the bad wording

& I do understand it, I have it installed, it just doesn't work that well for me so I don't want to be forced to use it.

I suspect the advantages of Steam to the developers will outweigh any loss they might experience to people who don't like Steam.

The auto-patching feature alone probably saves them a huge amount of trouble with tech support issues that are already resolved with patches that the user didn't know about or forgot to apply.

And the ease of adding DLC for sale, without having to set up their own system (remember all the problems with Oblivion DLC?), would be a huge benefit for many companies.

One of the things I do is IT network security related stuff. I've done a whole lot. In my travels I have for example seen rootkits (the real thing), worked with installs which were compromised but not rooted, been the one to put in code which intercepts TTYs to see the text being typed (its like a keylogger only deeper), did a thing which, in terms of function, worked the same as a "man in the middle" attack, and other stuff including kernel and other source edits. This is all white hat stuff, done in networks I'm supposed to be in. I've been a lot of places with this topic and I don't mean theoretically. It's one of the things I do every day, including today.

I say all of this to make a point and make it have some weight.

A rootkit is as a rootkit does.

A little program which screws around with some kernel edits (for example) and is a nuisance is not in my opinion a rootkit. Any SecuROM which may have come with Fallout 3 did not rootkit my windows workstation. It may (or may not) have done something rude (I never noticed anything), but it did not resemble a rootkit.

However. In order for me to feel comfortable installing Fallout NV, I am in the process of making a separate OS install on a separate hard drive, and taking a number of other precautions I'd sooner not go into here. This is because steam will endeavor to cause my workstation to connect into their network and exchange data. That is a different world from a program which stays localized.

I am not going to these lengths because I think it is fun, or because I'm misunderstanding something. It's because a backdoor is as a backdoor does. This has the arrangement of such. Once a data leak has happened you cannot reverse it (unlike a rootkit which you can cleanse out of the system). So, you have to be proactive on something like this. You can't watch it happen and then say "oops look what it did."

If I had a 100% dedicated gaming PC, with dedicated hardware, and no information on that machine which I felt was a compromise to either myself personally or anything I do, it would perhaps be acceptable to use fewer precautions. But well, such is life (donations for my dedicated gaming rig can be paypalled to ... umm, nevermind).

Yeesh. I had no idea the can of worms I was opening with this post. I have no beef with Steam myself, I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't hurt my modding experience. I've never really used a mod heavy game with Steam before.

I don't recall either Oblivion or Fallout 3 having any problems with any mods for more than a short time. The few problems that do exist are verily easily fixed/avoided.

I'm not worrying about it for New Vegas.

Yeah, Steam divides this community pretty sharply. A friendly advice, do not ever start a community discussion thread about supernatural phenomenons, that another flammable subject around here

But as has been said, Steam poses no issues for modding.

Drm is a touchy subject. I know it can get a little paranoid. But being realistic about this kind of topic. Companies do just as nasty stuff as criminals now. No longer making people among the nutty crowd. Stuff really happens and people react to it. To much negative practices and it sticks like glue.

To me I would prefer the stance of keeping a reasonably good image than following other company practice and using the excuse everyone else is doing it. Keeping a business isn't easy, but tarnishing the image for a marginal profit in the short term is been the reason for most companies why the economy is taking a nose dive.

But back on topic. From what I read lately on vegas. It shouldn't be to anol regarding mods. But hey, if it isn't.........no surprise either.