Lesser Aedra? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:45 pm

Ok, I am new to this lore stuff. I have a simple question. Is there a possibility of lesser Aedra like there is lesser Daedra?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:13 am

Im not sure how exactly "lesser Daedra" came about, but if they were created by/of the Princes then i'd say that humans and mer are "lesser aedra."

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:31 am

The Jhills of Akatosh, the Manga-Ge and the Daughters of Kyne all qualify.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:28 am

The Jhills of Akatosh, the Manga-Ge and the Daughters of Kyne all qualify.

The what, now? :confused:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:53 am

The what, now? :confused:

As always, http://www.imperial-library.info/.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:16 am

I guess you could say the humans, animals, and non-Daedric monsters are like minor Aedra because they were created by the Nine Divines the way Dremora, Winged Twilight, and Scamps were created by the Daedric Princes.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:23 am

but make sure you search for Magna, not Manga.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:25 pm

I would like to point out that technically, Dagoth Ur, Vivec, Sotha Sil and Almalexia were all lesser Aedra, as in they stole a portion of a dead/imprisoned (depending on your opinion) Aedra's power. Therefore, they became Aedra, although not as powerful as the other Aedra, thus making them lesser Aedra.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:10 am

I would like to point out that technically, Dagoth Ur, Vivec, Sotha Sil and Almalexia were all lesser Aedra, as in they stole a portion of a dead/imprisoned (depending on your opinion) Aedra's power. Therefore, they became Aedra, although not as powerful as the other Aedra, thus making them lesser Aedra.

The Tribunal, and Dagoth Ur, were already 'technically' Lesser Aedra before they used the heart.

By your logic, if one of my characters uses a daedric artifact, they become Lesser Daedra - because they're using some of their power.

The Tribunal became Immortals, as has been said, they were already Lesser Aedra.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:07 pm

I'd hardly call the still beating heart of a dead god an artifact. No, if your character uses, say the Mace of Molag Bal, it doesn't make him a lesser Daedra, because it doesn't grant him enough power to be able to transform himself to that station. I dispute the fact that the races of the Elder Scrolls are in any way shape or form, lesser Aedra. They do not return to a central focus for one.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:24 am

I'd hardly call the still beating heart of a dead god an artifact.

Why? It's made from the substance of the et'Ada - just as the artifacts are.

No, if your character uses, say the Mace of Molag Bal, it doesn't make him a lesser Daedra, because it doesn't grant him enough power to be able to transform himself to that station.

I can't believe you actually think a mortal can become a Lesser Daedra with "enough power"

I dispute the fact that the races of the Elder Scrolls are in any way shape or form, lesser Aedra. They do not return to a central focus for one.

How can you dispute it? When the Mundus was built, some of the Aedra became the first mortal races. They are the ancestors of men and mer, and as such mortals are 'lesser' forms of them.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:31 pm

How can you dispute it? When the Mundus was built, some of the Aedra became the first mortal races. They are the ancestors of men and mer, and as such mortals are 'lesser' forms of them.

Lesser Aedra would be Et'Ada that are weaker then the Nine, but still Aedric in their own right. Mortals are something entirely different, and even if the original mortals once lived as Et'Ada, the constant soul-shuffling of the dreamsleave has mixed things up so much, that this is really no longer applicable.

But no, the Tribunal are not lesser Aedra. They did not participate in creation, but yet existed at gods during that time, making them (if anything) Daedra, though they're not Daedra either.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:16 am

Lesser Aedra would be Et'Ada that are weaker then the Nine, but still Aedric in their own right. Mortals are something entirely different, and even if the original mortals once lived as Et'Ada, the constant soul-shuffling of the dreamsleave has mixed things up so much, that this is really no longer applicable.

So far as I am aware, the only thing the dream-sleeve does to souls is strip them of identity, and then store them for later use. These souls, even when stripped, are still connected to the original spirits - the et'Ada - Aedra. Though, I guess this has more to do with opinion than either being pure fact. I enjoy the idea that mortals are the lesser forms of the spirits that made them. If you have solid proof that it's not so, then I'll of course change my views.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:07 am

I don't find mortals giving a part of themselves to create Nirn, or become the laws of nature. That's pretty much the only guideline to be an aedra. Thus mortals cannot be aedra, they just inhabit the place.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:14 am

I don't find mortals giving a part of themselves to create Nirn, or become the laws of nature. That's pretty much the only guideline to be an aedra.

Aedra are the et'Ada who are more aligned to Anu.

Thus mortals cannot be aedra, they just inhabit the place.

And how did mortals begin to inhabit the Mundus?

That's right, through the Aedra.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:06 pm

Aedra are the et'Ada who are more aligned to Anu.

No, they're the et'Ada that gave themselves up to create Mundus. On the flip side, the daedra were the et'Ada that stayed and did not give themselves up to create Mundus. Another flaw is that there is a Anu aligned daedra, Jyggy

And how did mortals begin to inhabit the Mundus?
That's right, through the Aedra.

Doesn't mean they are Aedra, they're just living right on them.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:30 pm

No, they're the et'Ada that gave themselves up to create Mundus. On the flip side, the daedra were the et'Ada that stayed and did not give themselves up to create Mundus. Another flaw is that there is a Anu aligned daedra, Jyggy

You're right, sorry about that.

Doesn't mean they are Aedra, they're just living right on them.

I disagree.

Some were decided to stay in order to preserve what they had done. This group transformed themselves into Ehlnofey

Over many years, the Ehlnofey of Tamriel became:
- the Mer (Elves),
- the Dwemer (the Deep Ones, sometimes called Dwarves),
- the Chimer (the Changed Ones, who later became the Dunmer),
- the Dunmer (the Dark or Cursed Ones, the Dark Elves),
- the Bosmer (the Green or Forest Ones, the Wood Elves), and
- the Altmer (The Elder or High Ones, the High Elves).

On the other continents, the Wandering Ehlnofey became the Men -- the Nords of Atmora, the Redguards of Yokuda, and the Tsaesci of Akavir.

EDIT: I didn't state they were Aedra. I stated mortals are lesser forms of Aedra.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:36 am

EDIT: I didn't state they were Aedra. I stated mortals are lesser forms of Aedra.

And what I am saying is, I think it's not the correct term to use Aedra for 'lesser forms of Aedra,' because it implies they are aedra

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:13 am

That's like saying we shouldn't call daedra, who aren't Princes, Lesser Daedra, because it implies they are daedra - which they are.

Mortals are still, whichever way you look at it, of aedric origin. Just as lesser daedra are of daedric origin.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:09 pm

All the elf races are aedra, as they were descented from the spirits of the aedric realm.

Thats why there are so many elven wizards in the game, because their magic powers came from the aedra.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:33 am

That's like saying we shouldn't call daedra, who aren't Princes, Lesser Daedra, because it implies they are daedra - which they are.

Mortals are still, whichever way you look at it, of aedric origin. Just as lesser daedra are of daedric origin.

Skah...you're right.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:54 pm

Aedra is elvish for "ancestor". So pretty much everyone but Darwin Award finalists are aedra. HTH.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:01 am

So far as I am aware, the only thing the dream-sleeve does to souls is strip them of identity, and then store them for later use. These souls, even when stripped, are still connected to the original spirits - the et'Ada - Aedra. Though, I guess this has more to do with opinion than either being pure fact. I enjoy the idea that mortals are the lesser forms of the spirits that made them. If you have solid proof that it's not so, then I'll of course change my views.

If you're operating on this assumption, then this might explain your thinking.

That's not quite what happens. When a soul goes to the dreamsleave, the soul is added tot he collective of souls, mixed together with the others, and a new soul is carved out using pieces of the others, hence the collective Hindu-esque nature of the Mundus.

Read up on http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml, http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/vehk_teaching.shtml, http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta_nu-mantia.shtml and http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/mythic_dawn_commentaries.shtml.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:41 pm

The CoC became Sheogorath by mantling the power of Sheogorath, therefore, in my humble opinion, as the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur mantled the power of Lorkhan, they were all using a portion of his power, not all of it, and therefore were only lesser Aedra.