Sooo is Akatosh a two-faced snake?

Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:02 pm

I know there is great debate with respect to some of the things at The Imperial Library in terms of whether or not they're canon, but if one in particular is, it strongly suggests that the world has been created and destroyed many times over, and furthermore, that Mehrunes Dagon once attempted to save the world from being devoured by gradually hiding and re-adding bits of the world each time it was created, so that each world created was successively larger than the last. Eventually, he hoped that the world would be too large for Akatosh/Alduin to "eat." Akatosh/Alduin discovered this treachery, and banished Dagon to Oblivion, from whence he could only be exonerated if he managed to destroy every last excess bit of the world he had added. The covenant with St Alessia and the Dragon Fires prevented Dagon from reaching Nirn to do so, however.

I can only speculate that Mehrunes Dagon's attack on Tamriel may well have been - far from the desire simply to destroy for its own sake - an effort to eliminate this excess matter on Nirn (perhaps this excess is Tamriel itself?) in hopes of freeing himself.

If so, then Akatosh/Alduin's covenant with Alessia - far from the benevolent protection of his former prey, which never made sense to me anyway - was in actuality a device to ensure Dagon's captivity, and a way to preserve creation for the appointed time, before the time of devouring/destruction came again, and Martin becoming the Avatar of Akatosh was merely a means of containing Dagon yet again (with the added bonus of snuffing out the line of Dragonborn once and for all, opening the way to the time of devouring... which will begin in Skyrim.)

That's just a theory, though.

That... actually makes a lot of sense. So, the theory is basically that Mehrunes Dagon is a good guy. Cool.
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joseluis perez
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:32 pm

I think that Alduin/Akatosh wants to destroy the world because mortals are stupid and are killing each other. He want to stop the blood spilt... finishing the world. Then, the cycle begins again and again and again...
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Fanny Rouyé
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:06 pm

That... actually makes a lot of sense. So, the theory is basically that Mehrunes Dagon is a good guy. Cool.


Indeed. I personally have never seen Akatosh as a benevolent god but more as a cycle of nature, not specifically good or evil. His purpose is to periodically create and destroy the world. For whatever reason the imperials revere him for it (or only choose to believe in him as a creator) and the nords despise him for it.
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Jessica Raven
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:43 pm

I know there is great debate with respect to some of the things at The Imperial Library in terms of whether or not they're canon, but if one in particular is, it strongly suggests that the world has been created and destroyed many times over, and furthermore, that Mehrunes Dagon once attempted to save the world from being devoured by gradually hiding and re-adding bits of the world each time it was created, so that each world created was successively larger than the last. Eventually, he hoped that the world would be too large for Akatosh/Alduin to "eat." Akatosh/Alduin discovered this treachery, and banished Dagon to Oblivion, from whence he could only be exonerated if he managed to destroy every last excess bit of the world he had added. The covenant with St Alessia and the Dragon Fires prevented Dagon from reaching Nirn to do so, however.

I can only speculate that Mehrunes Dagon's attack on Tamriel may well have been - far from the desire simply to destroy for its own sake - an effort to eliminate this excess matter on Nirn (perhaps this excess is Tamriel itself?) in hopes of freeing himself.

If so, then Akatosh/Alduin's covenant with Alessia - far from the benevolent protection of his former prey, which never made sense to me anyway - was in actuality a device to ensure Dagon's captivity, and a way to preserve creation for the appointed time, before the time of devouring/destruction came again, and Martin becoming the Avatar of Akatosh was merely a means of containing Dagon yet again (with the added bonus of snuffing out the line of Dragonborn once and for all, opening the way to the time of devouring... which will begin in Skyrim.)

That's just a theory, though.


I like this theory. It makes Dagon feel less ''Me evil, me destroyah'', and care more about himself. But isn't Dagon supposed to be all about destroying stuff? Or maybe he turned into that while captive in Oblivion.
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Jennifer Rose
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:20 pm

That... actually makes a lot of sense. So, the theory is basically that Mehrunes Dagon is a good guy. Cool.


Well, not necessarily. One reason Nirn is referred to the Arena (the firt game's name-sake,) is because various cosmic and godly forces are constantly battling for control and influence over it. Mehrunes Dagon doesn't have to have been "good" to have wanted to preserve Nirn. It could simply be that he wanted to have it all to himself.

I like this theory. It makes Dagon feel less ''Me evil, me destroyah'', and care more about himself. But isn't Dagon supposed to be all about destroying stuff? Or maybe he turned into that while captive in Oblivion.


Perhaps this interprertation arose after it became his goal to destroy parts of Nirn to free himself?
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Stacyia
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:57 am

Well, not necessarily. One reason Nirn is referred to the Arena (the firt game's name-sake,) is because various cosmic and godly forces are constantly battling for control and influence over it. Mehrunes Dagon doesn't have to have been "good" to have wanted to preserve Nirn. It could simply be that he wanted to have it all to himself.


This kinda suggests that the destruction of the world is meant to keep one god from gaining too much power. Could be an interesting premise for TES VI.
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jessica Villacis
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:33 am

Sooo is Akatosh a two-faced snake?

Uh...what deity isn't?
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Epul Kedah
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:27 pm

It's all rather interesting. I like the idea of Akatosh not being "I'm good" and Mehrunes being a generic evil dude.
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courtnay
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:56 pm

I know there is great debate with respect to some of the things at The Imperial Library in terms of whether or not they're canon, but if one in particular is, it strongly suggests that the world has been created and destroyed many times over, and furthermore, that Mehrunes Dagon once attempted to save the world from being devoured by gradually hiding and re-adding bits of the world each time it was created, so that each world created was successively larger than the last. Eventually, he hoped that the world would be too large for Akatosh/Alduin to "eat." Akatosh/Alduin discovered this treachery, and banished Dagon to Oblivion, from whence he could only be exonerated if he managed to destroy every last excess bit of the world he had added. The covenant with St Alessia and the Dragon Fires prevented Dagon from reaching Nirn to do so, however.

I can only speculate that Mehrunes Dagon's attack on Tamriel may well have been - far from the desire simply to destroy for its own sake - an effort to eliminate this excess matter on Nirn (perhaps this excess is Tamriel itself?) in hopes of freeing himself.

If so, then Akatosh/Alduin's covenant with Alessia - far from the benevolent protection of his former prey, which never made sense to me anyway - was in actuality a device to ensure Dagon's captivity, and a way to preserve creation for the appointed time, before the time of devouring/destruction came again, and Martin becoming the Avatar of Akatosh was merely a means of containing Dagon yet again (with the added bonus of snuffing out the line of Dragonborn once and for all, opening the way to the time of devouring... which will begin in Skyrim.)

That's just a theory, though.


I like this idea as well. I did think the deal of "So Long as these Dragon Fires Burn" to be more of a restraining order against major influence on Nirn from Aedric and Daedric beings than a benevolent deal (Otherwise, why wouldn't the conditions have been "For all time" or "As long as the Allessian Line exists?"
Perhaps this interprertation arose after it became his goal to destroy parts of Nirn to free himself?

This is also cool.
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Cassie Boyle
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:21 am

And now I'll pretend I actually understand the lore for a bit.

The main religious difference between the early elves and humans was their attitude toward the creation of Mundus - humans believed it was an act of divine mercy, while elves believed it was a sort of divine prison that they had to escape. The elves worshiped Auri-El, who would eventually help them escape their mortal prison (it's not clear whether they had explicit knowledge of the world-eating thing, or they thought there was some other mechanism at work), and despised Lorkhan, who was responsible for creating it. The humans venerated Shor, to whom they owed their existence, and feared Alduin, who would eventually consume the entire world.

Human worship of Akatosh began in the First Era, among human slaves in Ayleid-ruled Cyrodiil, who adopted the gods of their elven overlords. When Saint Alessia overthrew the Ayleids and established the First Empire, she created a new religion that was a fusion of both human and elven beliefs, including the worship of both Auri-El (as Akatosh) and Shor (as Shezarr). Shezzar then ends up fading out of popularity before (possibly) sneaking back into the pantheon as Talos.

Imperial beliefs about Akatosh seem to be a bit confused. There's certainly no indication that they expect him to destroy the world. It's possible that that aspect of Auri-El didn't carry over, or that Maruhkati shenanigans are responsible somehow.
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Luis Longoria
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:39 pm

Maybe it's like Sheogorath and Jyggalag. Sheogorath was the founder of The Skivering Isles, while Jyggalag was the potential destroyer of The Shivering Isles. But in this case Akatosh is the savior and Alduin is the betrayer. Sounds good to me :)
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roxanna matoorah
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:50 pm

I like this theory. It makes Dagon feel less ''Me evil, me destroyah'', and care more about himself. But isn't Dagon supposed to be all about destroying stuff? Or maybe he turned into that while captive in Oblivion.



Not really. Dagon, whose sphere is destruction, change, revolution, energy, and ambition, can mean many different things. Change. Stasis is change. And Stasis also makes gods hungry.
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Alex [AK]
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:31 am

dude, if you search hard enough, you will find a topic that almost fully fleshed this story out.
its fasinating to read and you should do so.
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Andrea P
 
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